Later…
I am ready for the final questions.
Ilona: I’m very happy to hear that you are ready for the last questions. If something is not clear, answers will let me see that. Here are the questions…
Please answer in full, when ready.
Much love.
Lakshmi: Hi Ilona. Firstly, thank you, for all this.
1. Is there a separate entity “self,” “me,” “I” at all, anywhere, in any way, shape, or form? Was there ever?
No, there is no self, I, or me anywhere. Life is going on according to how it is supposed to be. There are different body-mind organisms, each with its own conditioning, programming, and memory just doing what has to be done all around. Other than this, there is no separate I, me, or self. Yes, there was an “I” before I started looking for it. The “I” that was there was what I thought was the life force which made my body move and the mind think. That consciousness is still there, but there is no “I” now. That consciousness is not separate, it is universal and is there. That’s it.
2. Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts, and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of separate self is that I am a separate entity and I exist and I am the doer. Maybe it starts from the time our mind starts thinking, working even as a child. It makes me feel that I am a separate individual and I am responsible for my actions, to plan, to think, to expect, to see good and bad. Label.
Now, I see it as just a thought, a mind projection—that’s all. It only exists as a thought. I can’t find it otherwise, neither in me nor others. Everyone seems to be a programmed machine consisting of body and mind working, according to the circumstances.
3. How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels very light, beautiful, because there is no burden of any doership in me, no “I” even in others. So there is no one doing anything to anyone. The answers come so easily to the questions which arise in day-to-day life. The perception changed and can’t believe that it is so simple.
There are no serious complaints, no burdens, no serious goals, no feeling hurt like before. Mostly now (but not always) there’s no holding anyone responsible for their deeds. Because every answer flows in and balances the emotion. I am sorry, I hope you can understand what I mean.
4. What was the last bit that pushed you over? What made you look?
Can’t really pinpoint the last bit because every step kept pushing. Looking and looking at every step possible helped me. Looking especially when I am hurt helped me to realize and understand better. I am sorry that I am unable to pinpoint the last bit.
5. Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Oh, no! I definitely cannot control. Of course, I cannot even decide, intend, choose, because they all happen according to the circumstances and conditioning, which are just not in my control.
Like some of the experiences in life, when I look at the past: I always wanted to become a doctor and practice. Yes, I did become a doctor, but I am not practicing as I thought I would. I’m sitting at home and taking care of the kids and other family members because I lost my dad and brother at a crucial stage in my life. Life is just flowing with no me, no deciding, no choosing, no control, though the mind seems to be doing this by saying, I exist—but I now realize that this is also just another thought. Many incidents of life in the past and the present show that life just happens. The one quote that just keeps ringing in my ears is: Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no doer. And no doer means no “I,” no separate self. This incident of meeting you, writing to you, looking at life, all this also is happening. Thanks and much love.
Ilona: Beautiful, thank you for answers, Lakshmi. I would like you to take a look a little bit closer:
Was there ever an “I”?
What is the “I” that was looking for “I”?
I can see that a shift has happened, just need to look a bit more.
Everyone seems to be a programmed machine consisting of body and mind working, according to the circumstances.
Yes, you can say that, but…
Zoom out a bit, look at the totality of movement, including this body. Is there a line between this machine and another machine?
Is it body that is experiencing and reacting?
Is there a line between reaction and circumstances?
When you look at what is looking, what is there?
Much love!
Lakshmi: Hi Ilona. “I” is another thought looking for “I”; it’s all the mind that’s working, thought by thought. All thoughts are coming as questions and answers too. There was never an “I.” There is a separation in terms of bodies, but otherwise the rest is all the same—the functioning is the same. The thoughts which come are beyond control of any machine, and when there is no “I” for me then there is not any other “I.” The experiences and reactions are happening according to the thoughts that come from somewhere over which there is no control; it’s the thought of “I” that is reacting because of the identification with body. Yes, the circumstances are already there, beyond control. The reaction comes because of the “ego,” the thought “I,” the identification. There is no one who is looking, looking is happening. Thank you so much. Love, Lakshmi
Ilona: Thank you for answers. Hmm… There is something subtle that I invite you to look at. You say, It’s the thought of “I” that is reacting because of the identification with body.
Say the word “I” loudly or quietly a few times. Is this thought reacting?
Can a thought identify with body?
What is it that identifies with the body?
What is behind identification?
Can you look closer here, is there an ego?
Or just more thoughts?
What do you notice?
Sending love.
Lakshmi: Hi Ilona, No, the thought isn’t reacting. There is no identification. There is no one at all. Only more and more thoughts, that’s all. There is no one. Oh my god!! Yes, no one indeed. Love, Lakshmi.
Ilona: That is it, and all is functioning just fine… Welcome home. And you know, it’s just a beginning, a fresh start to new way of living.
I’m delighted for you.
I usually put these conversations on the blog. Would it be okay with you? I can use your name or any other name you prefer. If other guides have questions, they may ask. If not, I will invite you to join Liberation Unleashed Facebook groups.
Sending love!
Lakshmi: Thank you, Ilona, The journey has been beautiful. You can do whatever you feel like with the conversations and my name. Much love.
Ilona: Hi Lakshmi. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day! Much love.
Some time later…
Lakshmi: Hi Ilona. It feels good to write, actually. To be frank, it is unbelievable that it is over, the seeking. Oh my god! How could it happen, and through you! Thanks for it. Anyways, it’s been too good. I should say, especially, the load we carry in our hearts is almost nonexistent and just too light because there is no past, no future. There is no guilt, hatred, sin, or pride because you know that there is no one to feel all these. In my personal life, too, it’s been a wonderful feeling of lightness. Freedom in all relationships, including parenting. Yes, the reactions do happen in every incident, but nothing really sticks. Many times I have heard in spiritual context that one needs to be like a flute: hollow for god to sing through. Now I understand its significance and meaning. What it means to be and live like that. Seeking has ended, and that is really comforting. Deep Looking helped to see and feel this, and now anything I see, anywhere I see, it just gets proven again and again that there is no one. It’s so simple, but awesome!
To add some more feelings. All this process and post-process is beautiful… There is no more seeki
ng, no more questions. The answers are flowing as if a blockage is being removed from a pipe. My god, this is too good! The feeling of a big puzzle being solved. The totality of life might be too big to understand, but the questions exist no more. There is no one! Life is much lighter and easygoing. The so-called negative qualities like anger, jealousy, and greed do not stay at all. Reactions continue but they are less severe and very transient. Nothing affects. Feels like laughing out loud a lot of times.
Thanks again, Ilona, because all this happened through your guidance.
Love, Lakshmi.
Thinking
I talk to a lot of people about thinking, and I feel like sharing some ideas with you. Of course, all of this is subjective. It’s for you to see for yourself.
People hear that if they can only stop thinking, all will be experienced more deeply and vividly, and they will be more aware. I receive questions all the time from people asking me how they can stop the labeling, the never-ending stream of thoughts. People try many things: meditation, willpower, and generally hating the voice in the head because it talks so much.
Thoughts are not a problem. Thinking that thoughts are the problem is the problem. See? People get locked in a repeat loop when they don’t realize the true nature of the problem.
Thinking is innocent, and it’s a great tool in a practical sense and in terms of artistic expression and entertainment. It is part of experience, part of the whole—there’s no need to try to get rid of it. And you can’t get rid of it if you try. Just sit for half an hour trying not to think, and see how that goes.
Belief Is Composed of Thoughts About Thoughts
Believing in the truthfulness of thoughts, and taking them seriously, gets in the way of peace—most of the time. Belief is made up of thoughts agreeing with repetitive thoughts; it’s a self-reinforcing feedback loop that stays in the system until properly examined. Beliefs are the core around which experience organizes itself. What happens when they are examined properly? See for yourself. Watch the thinking process, and notice how it happens.
Thoughts are symbols, labels; they form descriptions and interpretations of experience. Thoughts that are believed create tension and resistance as well as clinging and attachments. The I-thought seems to claim doership of thinking and action. But “I” is just a thought, like any other thought; it is not the I-thought that is thinking. Thinking is not done by you, it happens just like rain: rain is not rained by a cloud, it rains. There is no “rainer.”
Thank Thoughts, Don’t Fight Them
Rather than fighting thoughts, rather than hating this labeling process that goes on automatically, thank them!
Seriously, thank the mind for coming. Literally say, “Mind, I love you. You have been such a great mind, working so much for me. I really appreciate you. You are a gorgeous, beautiful, curious, caring, innocent mind! I love you!”
Instead of working against what is happening, turn your reaction around and see what happens. I’m not going to tell you—have a look for yourself to see how this response works. One thing is for sure: the mind will respond. And you can talk to it as you would a child. You don’t have to believe me: test it—see if it works for you.
Shoulds, Should Nots, and Wants
Thoughts that say what should and should not happen are weeds in your thought garden. When you notice them, stop and make a mental note; see if the opposite of “should” and “should not” is true, too. These thoughts create more thoughts about what is wrong. Notice them.
When shoulds and should nots are cleared, look out for “wants.” You will notice these mostly in certain areas, such as security, control, love, and acceptance. The wants are weeds, too, but somehow they are more difficult to let go of. Spend a day, or a few, taking your time to catch that word “want” every time you say or think it. Just make a mental note of when it shows up and in what situation. There is no need to follow these thoughts, just recognize when they are happening. Thank the wants for coming, too. It is okay to want what you want. You don’t have to do anything about it.
I call shoulds and wants “mind weeds” because these kinds of thoughts have great expansion potential. If you give them attention, they grow into more elaborate thoughts very quickly and are emotionally charged. They are clingy and sticky. Shoulds are thoughts of expectation, and wants are thoughts of lacking, of seeking something.
It’s not that these thoughts should not be coming up. When they come up, welcome them, because they will come up until you drop them or inspect them. Instead, welcome them, because they can show limitations and restrictions that are still in the system. Releasing shoulds and wants opens the mind to seeing what is and allows it to be at ease.
So, to sum up, instead of trying to get rid of thoughts, welcome them. Instead of holding on to shoulds, let them go; notice wants, and honor the mind.
The Description Is Not the Experience
Clarity comes when the description of what was experienced is not understood to be all experience. Thinking in and of itself is not the totality of experience; there is also perception through the senses and through feeling. If all focus goes to thinking, then the rest of experience is missed. And then you live in your head, lost in thinking, analyzing, and endlessly trying something mental. This is hard, and it’s unnecessary too.
Imagine you get a gift wrapped in nice paper, and all of your attention is focused on the wrapping. You are so attached to the paper, the ribbon, and the bow that you don’t even notice the gift. Then you get another gift and another, and still the wrapping job is all you ever see. Thoughts are to experience as that wrapping is to the gift.
When the mind is clear, it does not confuse the description of experience with real experience, words for things, or the map for the territory. The fog, the veil that seems to be in the way of seeing, is made up of descriptions, of labels given to the whole experience. The silent experiencing through feelings and sensations is left in the background, unnoticed, ignored. Life cannot be experienced fully and richly if one is living a story about the present moment rather than living the present moment that is so full and rich in sensations. Trying to stay in the present moment takes a huge amount of energy. Noticing presence here and now is effortless.
Try This for Yourself Take something from your immediate environment and smell it. Whatever is right here, right now, inhale the scent.
Hold it, feel it, and experience it. Smell that thing for two minutes. Take your time with experiencing; don’t pay attention to labels, rather experience the sensation.
For the next two minutes, describe the experience verbally and fully.
This test illustrates the difference between experience and description. But wait! Describing experience is also an experience, a fresh one happening in the moment.
Experiencing thinking is as real as experiencing smelling and other senses. If you pay attention and look deeply, thinking is happening; it is about experiences, and that in and of itself is experience. As you can see, the wrapping is also part of the gift.
Vision, hearing, tasting, touching, and smelling are the five channels through which data enters your experience. Thinking is what makes sense of the data; it interprets the data and describes what is going on, putting it all into a story. This process can be useful and practical, or it can just be unnecessary and useless.
The Mind and the Heart
Some thoughts trigger feelings. This is another channel of perception—the channel of the heart. When the mind and heart work in balance, there is joy and peace, there is openness and expansion. When the heart is closed or hurt, the mind is “in charge,” working hard to protect that which “needs” to be protected, with the help of a loyal friend called “fear.” The mind has a lot to do, a lot to keep track of, and it gets very busy, exhausting itself till it shuts down or explodes in a mental display of frustration.
The mind thinks that it has to understand and control everything, because it thinks that is its job. It thinks. But is it true that the mind is reall
y in charge of life?
When the mind is relaxed, it’s great; it’s like a joyful kitten, curious, innocent, playful, and fun, or silent and peaceful. The mind is afraid of losing its job micromanaging the universe. As if it is really doing that. It pretends that it is the manager of what happens and forgets that all of this is just a play.
The misunderstanding that the thinking mind is the primary and most important channel of perception is with us until we see that nothing controls what is. Everything simply happens. Life is going on by itself, including thinking about how this “me” is in charge. There is no thinker, no doer, so there is no one in control. Life flows freely, even if it does not seem this way.
Be kind to the mind. Let it know that you appreciate it. And let it slowly retire from the assumed position of the General Manager of the Universe. It will return to being the innocent mind that is creative, curious, and joyful. You won’t need to try to shut it up. It loves silence.
Love the mind and be kind to it, soften up. Just for a day, appreciate it, and say yes to the voice in the head. Kindness is soothing and leads to an opening. See if doing these things makes a difference for you.
What Do You Really Want?
There may be many things that you want. Let’s have a look at a few: control, security, and acceptance.
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