by Vernor Vinge
* [vsv] Another possibility would be to have most of this scene be Pham point of view or even [gulp] godshatter point of view.
* [jrf2] I think doing all as Ravna PoV is okay.
* [vsv] The weakness is the usual one of being inside a “godly” character. But one strength of a Pham PoV is that I could be clearer about explaining what happens. (In some places, that might be a weakness too. Here I don’t know. As it is, is the ending still too unexplained? If I could give straight-out explanation, I could probably make it seem less ad hoc and less confusing.)
* [vsv] Then after success, he is finally free (though soon to die as a side-effect of Countermeasure’s ceasing). And as he’s dying and finally free, the godshatter releases the truth — that Pham’s memories are truth. Apparently this had been withheld as part of the control structuring of the godshatter [mumble mumble hand-waving]. Now it’s revealed as a last kindness. But now he’s so far gone that he can’t say anything to Ravna. A last, poignant failure of communication.
* [jrf2] Suggest leaving it as is, but do have him expire.
* [vsv] Separate issue: One thing I have to decide is how irretrievable his death is. For instance, I could easily revise this so there is no attempt to pop the remains into cold sleep (Pham is consumed by the gray fire of Countermeasure). I think a lot of readers get tired of these superscience stories where death is always ho-hum because the reader knows revival is possible. One other virtue of the present version is that it doesn’t seem so malevolent
* [ur] FRAG : #Johanna Olsndot had a coldbox ready in just under three hours. It was the empty she had used on the flight in, and it seemed to be in working condition even after nearly a year untouched.
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Note 1442
* [ur] FRAG : easing it into the coldsleep box. Johanna went through the power up checkout. Ravna and the boy stood close behind, watching, Amdi all around them. The girl’s face was carefully blank as she surveyed the status window on the side of the box. But Jefri looked up at Ravna and was less able to dissemble. “It’s — it’s cooling down, okay. T-the drugs are going okay.” He grabbed her hand, the little boy trying to comfort the grownup. “I think he was dead t-too long, Ravna.”
* [vsv] [ur] June 19, 1991 : Still an ugly suspicion: the author has already pulled one Power beyond the Powers rabbit out of the hat … maybe he’s going to betray us here too, and bring poor Pham back??
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Note 1443
* [vsv] [ur] June 19, 1991 Since there is no other mention of the superpacks in this version, I have to take them out.
Point raised by bt: Besides, while superpacks could probably be formed in the Transcend, they would no doubt need some technical support (such as wideband communication links) which is not present here.
* FRAG : There were the strange superpacks that briefly formed while the sun was dim, and for a moment Tines’ World kissed the Transcend.
* [vsv] [ur] June 19, 1991 Really gotta bring in (at least mention) Greenstalk somewhere here (see possibility above).
* [ur] FRAG : #Ravna just squeezed his hand back. She was vaguely grateful for the effort and for all the comfort. But she had seen the body, seen the way Countermeasure and human flesh had mixed. The diagnostics at the top of the coldsleep box reported no pattern integrity: not even a Power could recover what no longer existed.
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Note 1444
* [vsv] April 13, 1991 This conflicts with kid’s chipperness a few paragraphs above (though consistent with the way he greets her). Also, to be consistent with this final paragraph and the discussion of superpacks, need to subdue Amdi, too.
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Note 1445
* [hld] INCON refugee ship was previously described as hospital module with strapped-on drive.
* [vsv] I’ve deleted that reference from c01 March 3, 1991
* [jrf] Overall need to reduce “reality confusion” as much as possible, since there is intrinsic reality confusion here aplenty. Would like foreshadowing in the form of affinity between Pham and Countermeasure. Rav finally recognizes this talent with respect to Countermeasure.
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Note 1446
* IMP ID Peregrine as soliton
Not quite Peregrine, but maybe the motto of Mr. Tines SEQ in “The Blabber”: “As long as there is need, I will be”
* QU IMP suggestions to improve these Epilogs welcome! QU should the novel be split into parts. I’m thinking:Part 1, up through the Fall of Relay Part 2, up to the arrival at Tines World Part 3, at Tines World (the shortest part) If I do do this should I number the chapters separately in each part? (It looks like there is going to be a total of about 50 chapters, not counting netnews items.)
* [jrf] Chapter numbers shouldn’t start at 1 in each section; just continue from start to finish. Part 2 should end just before Tines’ World space.
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Note 1447
* [vsv] [ur] April 7, 1991 Somewhere (perhaps already done) make comment that this is sort of what you expect if you mess around with Powers (though this is a much more extreme case than the average). June 19, 1991 Slightly alluded too at end of fleet battle. This could also be related to Ravna’s general fear of Powers
* [vsv] I think the Tyra/Flenser summing up here does work SOLN , and in fact the pacing of Tyra/Flenser’s torment throughout the story is at least okay now (weakest in c37).
* [vsv] Downplay how record-hot the summer was.
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Note 1448
* RETRO The sound of hammers rang again through the Halls of Hidden Island.
* [vsv] Streamsdell instead of the “northern valley”? June 19, 1991 NÆH
* [vsv] June 19, 1991 INCON were they really just “whispered about”?
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Note 1449
* [vsv] [ur] June 19, 1991 Could mention Greenstalk here as having helped with the kit.
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Note 1450
* [vsv] somewhere comment on Woodcarver’s bloated number (3f2m+2 puppies). I don’t think you have to do anything; there is probably some some natural protection against mind-bloat while the puppies are growing.
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Note 1451
* RETRO write the farmland into the first part of the novel
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Note 1452
* TUF PRB How come Johanna Jefri etc, etc are not here?
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Note 1453
* [vsv] [ur] June 19, 1991 slightly AWK transition between paragraphs
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Note 1454
* [vsv] TUF : INCON seems like she should know more by now (see time statement above)
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Note 1455
* [vsv] You should consider redoing this: Because Rav should already know some of this.Because Flenser had done some good here (and is now presuming to continue to rule here as a “kindler and gentler” person).Because this is kinda repetitive.
* CHK INCON “more than a century” (it is consistent with CHRON )
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Note 1456
* [vsv] [ur] June 19, 1991 ha. I do have easy mention of Greenstalk in this paragraph:
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Note 1457
* [vsv] NÆH : TYRA maybe some comment by someone knowledgeable about what an integrated pack the Flenser is January 20, 1991
“I have come to terms with myself”
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Note 1458
* [vsv] June 7, 1991 Following may be unrealistic. (Elsewhere, you talk of 600m drop! Looking at the map, it looks like a climb of at least 200m from the valley floor. I think 100m would be the least that would be consistent with your topography.)
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Note 1459
* [vsv] 06Jun91 mARK
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Note 1460
* PRB INCON Up til
l now, I’ve treated “child” as an unusual word in Tinish. But from this conversation, it looks like some sense of the word ought to be fairly common. — see c31
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Note 1461
* [ur] slight INCON
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Note 1462
* [vsv] [ur] June 7, 1991 Peregrine does not quite make sense in this scene.
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Note 1463
* [vsv] ID could use full names here (taken name + given name)
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Note 1464
* [vsv] What you have already is adequate though:
* QU it would be nice to have some neat thing that satisfyingly puts an end to the Vendacious thread of the story. Criteria:Must fit with the rest of events (at least not get in the way)Must not echo the fates of the various other characters
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Note 1465
* CHK chron
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Note 1466
* [vsv] INCON remember this when you do later epilogs eg, about statecraftly behavior
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Note 1467
* [vsv] June 6, 1991 AWK “might so can I?” FIXED
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Note 1468
* [vsv] 06Jun91 mARK
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Note 1469
* [ur] Page 756, INSERT Q [finishes a paragraph]:
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Note 1470
* PRB philosophically that this is too much “my brother’s keeper”. However, if it simply illustrates an alien mind/biology maybe it’s okay?
* [vsv] RETRO this “[ ]” usage back when Peregrine is translating for Johanna. c24c31
* [vsv] No, I couldn’t do it. The previous usages make it explicitly clear who is saying what.
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Note 1471
* [vsv] SOLN As far as I’m concerned (21Jan91 ), this let’s me off the hook about VENDACIOUS. Should be something at the end of story, someone very unhappy that Vendacious couldn’t be punished more
DONE (see island flashback later in this file)
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Note 1472
* [vsv] IMPER this paragraph and the Steel/Flenser fight scene may give you some notion how to pace Tyrathect’s development. Perhaps by having the struggle be more subtle after a certain point
* IMP ID When Steel lunges forward, it could be with the knowledge that this probably won’t work, but it is his best chance
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Note 1473
* [ur] June 7, 1991 Unfortunately use of “name” below conflicts with “taken” name
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Note 1474
* [jrf2] Why?!
* [vsv] Trying for real alienness here. I don’t think there is any human parallel for the moral status of Flenser Tyrathect (though the success of this point may depend on readers buying my claim that now most of the rationality/consciousness is Flenser while much of the personality substrate is a completely merged Tyrathect). Success in convincing people of that depends on how well I did the final battle between Flenser and Steel, and Flenser’s “conquest” of Tyrathect in the question of murdering Johanna.
* [vsv] [ur] June 20, 1991 make preceding a item
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Note 1475
* [hld] Won’t OOB’s agrav fail very quickly in the Slow Zone? Could Zone bounce be really fast up and down and still kill the Blight?
* [vsv] I intend that the post-Surge boundary be long lasting.
* [hld] Seems if the Blight were momentarily shutdown it would reboot without intervention even if it didn’t know enough to anticipate the Zone Surge. Killing the next one might be real dicey if it is initiated while the archives remember what happened here.
* [vsv] [ur] June 7, 1991 CHK “legend” v “myth” in your Tines BKG
June 19, 1991 Looks to me like “legend” is what I’ve been using for memories that survive the soul.
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Note 1476
* NÆH : INCON naming of oceans BKG
* NÆH : CHK chron, update TINES geography BKG RETRO look at Islands book (books.txt) Menard GB471.M46 1986
* PRB CHK high frequency sound attenuation in water
* [vsv] June 19, 1991 See notes on this
* IMP TINES BKG PRB you’ve had it be that pack races (natural group minds) are vanishingly rare. (I think that is said the most strongly in “Blabber” — CHK ). Why should that be? It would be much better if they were merely “rare”, and quickly transcending. But then, it seems like Ravna would not make the underestimate of the Tines that we’ll see in the scene after this one — see SOLN below
* [vsv] IMP Actually, You could have packoid races be very rare and quickly transcending (so much so that they don’t interact with others much). Furthermore, hardly any of the individuals of such races stay behind. (They have few reservations about becoming Transcendent since they already have fluid notions of identity.) Note that this point about rareness is mentioned in c16c25.
* SOLN : March 10, 1991 Aha. Just review the Blabber reference. In fact, it looks like what you really needed there was simply that no one guess Blab is fragment. I think that’s sufficiently plausible easy even if the notion of group intelligences is not super rare (just fleeting).
* [hld] Pack races could be vanishingly rare because it takes so much processor power to coordinate the elements. Different wiring and you get singleton intelligence.
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Note 1477
* [vsv] [ur] June 19, 1991 again INCON with nature of skrode controls
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Note 1478
* [vsv] PRB gotta make it real plausible that he can do so much better than Blueshell.
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Note 1479
* [vsv] [ur] ID either here or elsewhere, may help INCON s to remark that she’s driftier than usual; it may be a failure of the new skrode, but then Riders usually are driftiest when there are no real threats to engage the symbiosis of skrode and Rider.
* Look up the term “fret”; dictionary:”an ornamental network”
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Note 1480
* RETRO added details to get in some place: humidity, high sun, hot.
hot ground felt through paws?
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Note 1481
* [vsv] June 7, 1991 INCON IMP Greenstalk didn’t have wheels on her skrodeling earlier in the story!
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Note 1482
* [vsv] [ur] June 7, 1991 BKG CHK 3m high tide to low? You should be able to get a good measure on this with scaling.
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Note 1483
* [vsv] June 7, 1991 ID hmm, This about the water is rather like a medieval version of the Zones!
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Note 1484
* [vsv] Try to rephrase this so as to be consistent with your analysis that the Pack adaptation arose in a marine mammal. (You’re very close to having it here already.) SEQ DONE June 19, 1991 mARK
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Note 1485
* [jrf2] get rid of parentheses in preceding paragraph June 20, 1991 TUF
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Note 1486
* [vsv] June 8, 1991 “years” instead of “decades”?
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Note 1487
* [jrf2] “spiteful” instead of “spineful”? NO
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Note 1488
* [jdv] p860 parting with Greenstalk,
… Ravna nodded. “Secret” not clear.
Make their size clearer earlier on (she thought they were about the size of a wastebasket)
* [vsv] I think this size thing is fixed now (see c08)
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Note 1489
* [vsv] June 20, 1991 Actually, more than 10 million (though that may be correct snapshot number)
.
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Note 1490
* [vsv] [ur] June 20, 1991 : general problem of irrelevant adjectives
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Note 1491
* [vsv] “energetic edge” is awkward
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Note 1492
* [jrf2] ? get rid of second sentence of preceding paragraph.
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Note 1493
* [jdv] Semi-recommends getting rid of ruthless conversation between Pilgrim and Woodcarver about killing Greenstalk; Maybe make a milder conversation.
* [vsv] I agree; it also undercuts the honor with which she treated Vendacious.
* ID probably a few words at the end of the preceding paragraph could mellow the ruthlessness angle. FIX ed March 10, 1991 (also does a pretty good job of fixing Vendacious windup)
* [jrf2] See my suggested cut, next paragraph [which is just to drop the reference to the possibility of treachery]; [vsv: I think I’ve got this properly fixed.]