Unqualified

  Anna:Is it on his DVR?

  Cassie:He has Hulu all queued up.

  Anna:I love The Golden Girls but this is a deal breaker. I would hope that I knew an ex of his so I could mine her for information, but yeah, that seems like a forever hurdle. And also, not to be gossipy, but if I continued that relationship I couldn’t tell that story to my friends and I would really want to tell that story to my friends. If he was a fantastic guy and I really loved everything else about him maybe I would dig around eBay for something autographed by Bea Arthur to give him as a gift when we broke up.

  Just Friends: A Conversation Between a Man and a Woman Who’ve Been Pals for Fifteen Years and Haven’t Slept Together

  My podcast partner, Sim Sarna, is more than just a producer and the willing recipient of a constant barrage of “fuck you, Sim.” He’s also a longtime friend. We go back over a decade, and it’s always been platonic. Here’s our take on how that’s possible.

  Anna:Any conversation about our friendship has to start by addressing your bowel problems on our first couples’ vacation.

  Sim:Yes, that’s true. And your advice to me was, “Next time you go on any vacation with a group of people, eat a bunch of Pepto or Imodium before you go.” You said, “Stock up on those and you’ll be fine. Your body will be backed up and feel awful for a week, but you won’t have the runs.”

  Anna:That’s how you know you’ve reached the pinnacle of friendship, when you can have that conversation. But for us—and correct me if I’m wrong—but for us to get to that point took time. We’ve known each other for years, so now the flaws we see in each other—shit-related or otherwise—have just become part of the package.

  Sim:Well, here’s the thing, Anna. You and I are very similar people, so we can handle the flaws we see in each other because they are the same ones we see in ourselves.

  Anna:Yes, that’s true. Is that why we hit it off so quickly? Maybe this is where we get into slightly dangerous territory, and I don’t know if you remember it the same way I do, but even though I was in a relationship when we met, I remember being completely drawn to you. Not necessarily in a supersexual way, but I remember thinking, Oh, he’s handsome, he’s interesting. I think over time we really have developed a rare thing in that we are both straight and have a really healthy friendship that hasn’t revolved around anything sexual. And for that to stay intact for more than fifteen years, that’s a really long time anywhere, but especially in Hollywood.

  Sim:Completely rare. It doesn’t happen! When I first met you, I remember thinking, Oh my God, she’s so sweet and so funny. And very attractive, obviously, but you were dating Ben at the time. I was drawn to you, though, because no one had ever made me laugh that hard. You were so funny.

  Anna:Really? Go on.

  Sim:Not only were you funny, but you were self-deprecating and you were . . . you were you! Everyone wanted to be around you, and I did, too. I thought you were incredible.

  Anna:It’s so true. I am. But seriously, I found your intelligence and wit so refreshing. I instantly liked you better than all the other new people I was meeting. At the time I was new to LA and you were one of my very first friends. I was still compiling a social network, and I think we had a little bit of a kismet thing that I couldn’t quite put my finger on.

  Sim:Do you remember the first time we met? It was at Le Colonial, at the corner of Beverly and Robertson. I remember because there was a lounge above the restaurant and it was the hot spot for like two or three weeks. In LA, there’s always the hot new place and this was it for a brief moment in January 2001.

  Anna:I totally remember. You knew one of the producers of Scary Movie and he invited me to go out with a bunch of his friends, and we all started hanging out as a group for a while. But I’m not friends with any of the others anymore. Not because anything bad happened, just . . . time.

  Sim:Yeah, but those were our friends for a long while. Today, I’m Facebook friends with all of them but it’s been years since I’ve actually spoken to any of them.

  Anna:Oh, I need to grill you on some of this, because I have no idea where they’ve been. I’m not so active on Facebook.

  Sim:That’s interesting. I hadn’t thought of that until now, that you have zero connection to them since you’re barely on Facebook. For me, if they like a picture of mine on social media, I think, Wow, after fifteen years they are still in my life. But that’s all it is, just a like on Facebook. Meanwhile, you probably haven’t thought of them in years. Like if you saw our old friend Eddie, you’d be like, “Holy shit, I used to hang out with you every day and I now haven’t seen you in ten years.”

  Anna:Yeah, probably. Or I’d be like, “Sorry, what’s your name again?” No, I’m kidding. I don’t mean to sound like such a bitch. But there are a lot of transitional people in Hollywood.

  Sim:That’s true.

  Anna:Which is why it’s so cool, and unusual, that we’re still friends. Navigating heterosexual friendship is tricky, and that was especially true when we were in our twenties and all of us were putting on a bit of an act. Yet you always had something more to offer. I think we understood each other’s sense of humor and, this might sound selfish, but you had more to offer me, personality-wise, than a lot of the other new people I was meeting.

  Sim:That’s so nice of you to say.

  Anna:But really, as I think more about it, maybe the reason our friendship has worked is as simple as the fact that, Sim, you’re not a fucking creep.

  Sim:Yup. That’s pretty much what it comes down to. But I’ll admit, I had a really rough time, especially at the beginning of our friendship, because you were in a relationship and the three of us became close and I felt third-wheely a lot. It was strange to have a relationship with two people who I figured would be together for life, yet I clearly wanted to spend my time with one over the other.

  Anna:Me?

  Sim:Absolutely not.

  Anna:I figured. But it’s true—we’ve seen each other through so many relationships. Well, I’ve seen you through a few more than you have me, but not many. You’re a monogamist like I am.

  Sim:True. I haven’t had that many girlfriends.

  Anna:I’m so grateful that Chris doesn’t have that many female friends. I have some girlfriends in long-term relationships where their male partners have a lot of female friends and, I don’t know, it’s tough. Is it a completely archaic idea that men can’t have female friends? I mean, you have me.

  Sim:Yeah, I hear what you’re saying. I’m pretty sure that every one of my fiancée Amy’s guy friends wants to sleep with her, so I understand feeling hesitant about your partner’s relationships.

  Anna:Totally.

  Sim:But seriously, every single one. Even the ones who are married with kids!

  Anna:Is that because men are selfish in friendship? Do they think they’re not getting anything out of a relationship with a woman if they can’t even entertain the idea of scoring? Or what? What is it, Sim? Why don’t most men like being friends with women? Speak for all mankind, please.

  Sim:I don’t know. I’m a guy and I’m friends with you. But even in our case, we’ve had a platonic friendship for so long, and it has still been hard for some people. My ex-wife had an issue with it.

  Anna:She did not care for me at all.

  Sim:She didn’t. She seemed threatened by our relationship, which is why you and I were out of touch for years. I was so glad you were at my wedding, but then we only saw each other a couple of times over the next two years while my marriage was crumbling.

  Anna:I wasn’t mad at you for that, because I understood, but I hated that when I did see you, you didn’t seem very happy. Of course, I wasn’t totally innocent in that. I think that at least on a subconscious level I kind of knew that she wasn’t digging me, so maybe I put a bit more attention into killing her with kindne
ss. But I never wanted to stress her out or put her down. I always wanted to treat her well.

  Sim:You tried. I was so disappointed that she was threatened by you because you really did try.

  Anna:She probably thought the same way I do, in a lot of ways. That if a guy is going to be friends with a gal, usually he is at least partially thinking about getting laid.

  Sim:Yeah, sure, for some guys that’s the case. But I’ve never really been like that. I’ve always been comfortable with women as friends. I was such a late bloomer that when I would talk to girls or become friends with them, even in college, I just knew I had no chance with them.

  Anna:Oh, Sim.

  Sim:No, it’s true, and it’s fine. And it made it so that girls could get to know me and see me as a friend. I was always the friend guy, and I didn’t mind it so much. In my twenties, I began to gain a little more confidence with women, but at the heart of it I’m still a really shy guy who doesn’t think he has a chance with most girls, so he’s lucky to be friends with them.

  Anna:You just tapped into something that I think is crucially important, which is that we were both late bloomers. And because of that, we approached every interaction with a “this person does not want to fuck me” attitude. In an odd way, that is a very fundamental common bond that contributes to everything we do. Maybe that’s how we were able to maintain this friendship for so long. Because neither one of us would ever think someone wanted to screw us. There! We’ve figured out the secret to men and women being friends. Be people who were awkward in childhood.

  Sim:Totally. When people ask me if men and women can be friends, I say yes. But I have to caveat that with the fact that, again, it’s rare. Not necessarily winning the lottery rare, but winning the raffle at a carnival rare. Your odds are low, but there’s a chance.

  Anna:But then what happens when one of you enters a relationship?

  Sim:The same thing we did with Amy. When she and I started dating, she had to contend with the fact that there was another woman who consumed my life. Someone who, because she’s my business partner, I think about every hour of the workday and I am hearing her voice in my ear, literally, all the time—

  Anna:And she’s an obnoxious actress . . .

  Sim:And she’s an obnoxious actress! Amy entered our relationship already feeling like the other woman, so it was difficult at the beginning. But I was totally up front with her about my relationship with you—which is now both a personal friendship and a professional partnership—and she’s been just amazing. And, certainly, it’s a credit to you that you’ve gone out of your way to make her feel comfortable.

  Anna:That’s kind of you to credit me, but she’s been great. She’s more confident than any woman I’ve seen you with, so when I reach out to her independently of you, she’s completely engaged. She and I have a nice friendship, and it was important to me that she felt safe with the time that you and I spend together. There’s nothing weird going on; we’re just trying to make this silly podcast and we’ll see what happens. But really, to her credit, she heard that. She registered what I had to say. If I were in Amy’s shoes, I don’t know if I could have dealt with it very well, or at all. I would have been like, “Fuck this.”

  Sim:She was very mature about the whole thing, and I think that’s a part of it. Every day that I spend working on the podcast is partly because I want to create a life with her, and she’s so proud of me—and of us—that it makes me continue to work harder.

  Anna:That is really sweet. Obviously it’s different with Chris and me because we’ve known each other for a decade. But you were in my life when he and I met.

  Sim:I met him before you did!

  Anna:Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Why do I forget anything that’s not about me?

  Sim:We weren’t friends or anything, but I had met him socially before.

  Anna:I will say that after we started the podcast Chris said to me, “So is Sim like your best friend now?” It wasn’t an accusation. There was no undertone of “Are you sleeping with him?” or any kind of allusion to anything sexual, but it was a vulnerable moment on his part because you and I were spending so much time together. It was sweet, though. I loved that he was missing my company. On one hand, Chris is incredibly impressed by the fact that you and I just talked about creating this thing a couple of years ago and now it is actually happening. On the other hand, this is more time away from family life. And that will be the constant struggle of all our lives. But it was of comfort to me that he said that. I would have been really bummed if he was like, “No, talk to Sim as long as you want. Do whatever you want. I’m fine.” It’s always nice when someone wants to be around you.

  Sim:Everyone wants to be around you. Why do you think so many people agreed to do our podcast back when it was new and unkown? People love to hang out with you.

  Anna:Fuck you, Sim.

  Scoliosis Check

  Each year of middle school, there was one day where we had no choice but to reveal our bodies to the other girls in the grade. That day was scoliosis-check day. I was incredibly flat-chested in middle school. I got a training bra long before I needed it, just because everyone else had one, and I got made fun of—a lot—for my lack of boobs. Most days, even in the locker room before gym, you didn’t have to take your shirt off in front of anyone. You could just do that maneuver where you put one shirt on before taking the other one off and—poof!—you were in your gym clothes. But for scoliosis check, you had to line up in your bra and wait to bend over so the nurse could check your spine. It was the longest wait ever. I couldn’t have been flatter, and I was sure the other girls were all quietly assessing my completely lacking body.

  Scoliosis-check day was not a fun day.

  To the extent that I developed at all—I never grew to be very tall and certainly didn’t wake up as a C cup one day—it happened relatively late. In high school, I could have easily been cast as one of the geeks in Freaks and Geeks. I had no boobs, no curves, and I wanted those things desperately. My classmates used to talk about “being on the rag” or “getting a visit from Aunt Flo,” and I had no idea what they were talking about. I seriously believed, Okay, I guess this isn’t going to happen for me. I’m going to be one of those girls whose period just doesn’t come. I finally got it when I was fifteen.

  During my junior year of high school, I went through a small growth spurt and put on a little bit of weight—enough to distinguish myself from a fifth-grade boy, at least—and by senior year there were a couple of times when I actually started to feel more attractive. One day this guy Shane looked at me and said, “Man, you’ve really grown up, Faris.” And despite the fact that I probably should have been disgusted, instead I was like, No way! Could I be attractive? That was a really exciting idea for me, even though I didn’t really buy into it. “Hot girl” has never been an identity that I’ve been fully comfortable with. Even if I’m in hot pants and my hair and makeup are done and I’m playing a character who feels hot, I just can’t embrace it. And that’s not because I think I’m unattractive or anything. I just think you have to take yourself really seriously to identify as hot, and to this day I have too much wrapped up in the idea of being the incredibly insecure fifteen-year-old who nobody wants to hook up with. I think that identity will forever be a part of me, and I don’t really mind.

  Like all women, I also remember the day I realized that my weight would always be a point of discussion. When I was thirteen, I was at a coffee shop with my friend and her mom, and I ordered a hot chocolate with whipped cream.

  “Are you sure you want whipped cream with that?” my friend’s mom asked me.

  That was a mile marker for me. It was the first time I thought, Oh fuck, am I not supposed to get the whipped cream? (As for the mom, like most adults who have no idea how impactful their supposedly innocuous comments are, she probably thought nothing of it. She was desensitized.) It really
threw me, and I felt so ashamed. I didn’t finish my hot chocolate or eat the whipped cream in the end, because I immediately thought I must be fat or was going to get fat.

  Overall, though, my body image stuff has been much more about my face and breasts than my body size. I never had a crazy obsession with weight. It’s probably only third or fourth on my list of body image issues. First comes face, particularly lips, then breasts, then weight, then hands.

  And yes, it’s sad that I can cite a list, and that I can guarantee that all women have these lists. I was about to write that I can’t imagine a man having a similar list, but I don’t know. Living in Hollywood I’ve definitely been around some vain men, a number of whom have been unattractively obsessed with how they look or what they weigh or how much hair they’ve lost, which is actually really comforting to us women at the end of the day. At least dudes have their own stuff they beat themselves up about.

  Self-obsession is more commonplace in today’s world of selfies, too. It’s more socially acceptable to be at once insecure and vain about looks, no matter your gender.

  So anyway, let’s run down the list, shall we?

  #1. LIPS.

  I have a scar on my upper lip from a bike accident I had with my brother, and I always had thin lips anyway. So around the time that I was filming The House Bunny, I started getting injections in my upper lip. I did it for a little bit and I noticed a small difference, but no one else ever said anything. I kept wondering if anybody else even noticed. Turned out, after doing it long enough, the injections became very apparent. One day a bunch of my friends were like, “Hey, Anna, your lips are getting pretty big.” At that point, I had to wean myself off the injections. In the world of Angelina Jolie, who doesn’t want big, puffy beautiful lips? But I look back at the decision to get injections as a mistake. Not because I judge other people for doing it—I really don’t—but because it definitely wasn’t the right choice for me.