You weren’t turned on by metal-heads more like yourself, then?
No. What mattered for me were the looks and the personality. You can always work on the rest.
How did you work on Celina?
I filled her world with my passion. I brought her tapes and she listened with curiosity. With time, she began to go deeper into it. She bought her own records. I think she even liked metal. She saw in it what I had seen. For a lot of people it’s just mindless banging, but what I saw was a genre that could develop a kid like no other. It wasn’t even about the wide range of sounds. The themes were also important: religion, love, sex, politics and social issues, history—silly and serious stuff …
Listening to music is one thing, but you also played it?
Celina got quite quickly entangled in the band’s issues. She took part in the photo session for our mini-album Bewitching The Pomerania. Satyricon, one of the leaders of the Norwegian scene, released a record called Nemesis Divina at the time. The music was accompanied by a video full of eroticism and beautiful graphics. It turned out that metal bands could do some really professional stuff. A forest and a random camera was not enough anymore. We went in a new direction.
It was certainly quite a bold concept.
We were nineteen years old and we thought we were discovering a new world. Today, nudity is much more common in metal videos or imagery. It became a commodity. It used to be different back then. Celina showed her breasts and we thought it had a strong effect.
On Grom (Thunder), one can also hear her voice.
She was always a good singer, but I don’t know if she ever really fitted our music. It was an experiment, and not really a successful one. What we came up with was a mix of genres. It’s difficult for me to listen to these fragments now without a hint of embarrassment.
Were you proud that your girlfriend was so engaged?
Very. I have never met a woman who gave herself to me so much. Celina did everything; she would help me with a lot of things. She would go to the post office to send my letters; she would translate interviews. My English really developed thanks to her.
We lived like we were married. When I came back from school, there would be dinner waiting for me on the table. Her money was our money. During our trip to Scandinavia, I tapped her for a lot of CDs because I simply couldn’t afford them myself.
Did you want to get to get to know the motherland of the music that inspired you?
Before that, I associated Norway and Sweden only with fjords, oil, and salmon. Black metal changed that. Today, even their diplomats know about the history of the genre—because, as it turns out, the whole world associates the north of Europe with this cold and brutal music. It’s one of their export goods.
When I got there for the first time, black metal was totally underground; only later would it ride on a white horse into the pop-culture world. I was fascinated by the fact that such radical music flourished in the place where even sixty-year-old grocery merchants speak perfect English. It was a different world. I realised how far my country was from catching up with these standards.
Are you talking about music or general development?
Both. In Poland, communism has only just collapsed, and wild transformations were taking place. We were far behind in every respect.
Did you travel a lot at that time?
The first time I ever went abroad was on a school trip. We went to Leningrad. The city made an amazing impression. It’s not called the Venice of the North for no reason. I’ve travelled quite a lot since. I visited people from the underground. When we were about to sign our contract with a German company, Solistitium, I thought that I should do it by meeting them in person. I also paid quite a few visits to Jürgen Bartsch from the band Bethlehem. We went to the Netherlands together. We would drink a lot of alcohol, smoke grass, and talk all night until sunrise. In Rotterdam, I visited Gorgoroth from Funeral Winds. Not far from Milan, our friends from the Entropy label lived. I went to see them with Celina, just like when we went together to Scandinavia. That’s where I met Robert Mammarela, the guy who managed the Avantgarde label. We signed a contract with them a few years later.
Deep inside, I felt that the act of travelling developed me. It’s not just about meeting new people and experiencing new countries. The trip itself can teach you a lot. There were no computers; we only had landlines and letters. You didn’t take a plane but rather a bus, and in the best-case scenario, you might take a ferry. Today, all this sounds like an abstract idea, even though it was only about a dozen years ago.
Did you meet any musicians in person in Scandinavia?
Among other things, we went there to visit Mortiis from Emperor.
Did he receive you well?
He was really nice and modest. He had walls in his apartment plastered with CDs. I have never seen a collection like it. I even had a photo taken with it in the background.
The host himself was a guy from another planet. He would not eat for days. He just swallowed a cookie for breakfast and that was it. His equally amazing girlfriend came over in the evenings. She was from Transylvania. She used to date Euronymous from Mayhem previously, when he was still alive.
The four of us would talk for hours about the storm that was going on in the underground. Those were dangerous times. Mortiis had moved to Sweden because he had to flee Norway. He was scared for his life there.
Did he have good reason?
After Burzum’s Varg Vikernes murdered Euronymous from Mayhem in 1993, as part of the feud between rival Norwegian black metal musicians, things got, shall we say, hot. The scene was divided: one faction wanted to take revenge on ‘that traitor from Burzum’; the other thought that it was Mayhem’s leader who was the traitor. Bluster and threats were commonplace. Anyone could get knifed. Also, the churches were still burning. No wonder the police came in. The swoops and searches didn’t make life easier, either.
Who did you consider to be the traitor?
I was above all that. I was a little scared by the whole story, but also a little fascinated. There was no fooling around with black metal—you could actually lose your life, but that’s also what drew people in. I tried not to step out of line and instead just observed the situation.
Events in Norway actually echoed quite loudly in Poland. The authorities’ interest in our subculture suddenly grew. I managed to avoid them, but I had friends who were swooped upon a few times.
Black metal was talked about. People began to notice it. I remember once when I was sitting at the typewriter, writing letters, my father entered my room and without a single word placed a brochure on my desk. It said ‘Black metal—growing danger.’ Some jerk was handing them out in the street.
Wasn’t Celina terrified by all this?
She was led by me, and she just accepted my way.
You had been together for quite a few years by then.
It was my longest relationship. It lasted because Celina was loving, devoted, and loyal. And I was rather ignorant and despotic. Everything had to go my way. My good day was her good day, and my bad one—hers, too.
Did she ever rebel?
Never. She never even gave any sign that there was something wrong. But then again I was no tyrant—nothing like that. I just created rules that I thought were normal. I had an expansive nature, and she accepted that. There was a kind of symbiosis in it, but I was definitely dominant. But the truth was that I was a jerk. After three years I felt weariness, and I started getting interested in other women. If I could turn back time, I would smack myself in the face and say, ‘Man, chill the fuck out.’
Did you treat your loved ones badly?
I wasn’t too nice to people. My father told me that many times. He said I didn’t treat people well. I absolutely didn’t understand what he was talking about—I just thought I was the one who dealt the cards. There is nothing wrong in that, but you have to know how to do it so that you don’t hurt others while doing so.
I hope that I have learned how
to respect people. I try to use my leadership skills without being rude and arrogant. I’ve been trying to reach this stage for years. I have experienced some unpleasant moments on many occasions, and it was often my fault.
Was it your fault that your relationship with Celina fell apart?
I was in college; I started meeting new people. I felt like I wanted to turn myself loose and do something new. I just dumped her. I did it without a warning, just like that. She lost the plot for a few weeks. Then she found a new boyfriend. When I found out about that, I was furious. I was the only one who could make rules, but there she was—playing her own cards. She became independent. Of course, it was a blow to my sick ego. The tables had been turned. I suffered and longed for her, but there was no going back. I had lost control. That’s when I went to Scandinavia for the second time. This time I was alone. I needed to escape.
Fifteen years have passed. Have you change a lot?
There is an idiot and a wise man inside each one of us—myself included. I can be brusque and crude or hang up the phone, but an hour later I can charm somebody with compliments.
But you’re still not exactly easy to deal with?
I’m working on it. I show the whole package at the very beginning, because I want to build a relationship, not an illusion. When I was younger, I used to charm girls, show them how gallant and wonderful I was. Always well-kept, in my best clothes …
Today, I never hide that I have a second face as well: when I wake up in the morning, my face looks like a pork chop, and I’m some distance from being fresh. This side is even more interesting—in women, too. I like it when there is no taboo in a relationship. I’ve got friends who’ve been stewing in their marriages for years. I ask them if their wives sometimes fart when they’re nearby. They say, ‘Dude! Never!’
These guys live in a terrible illusion; they idealise their spouses. Come on, are you telling me that a real women never poops? That’s stupid. I had this situation recently where my female friend farted on a first date. She smiled and turned it all around. There was no embarrassment in her behaviour whatsoever. I liked that. These are the bases on which you should build a relationship. I am no naturalist, but nothing human is alien to me either.
Rollers in the hair, a facemask, cucumbers on the eyes; these things don’t put you off?
On the contrary, I think it’s cute. I remember one of my first dates with Dorota. I went to visit her in Warsaw, and we went to party for the whole night. I was supposed to be in Gdańsk the next day, but I promised to her that—once I had had a good night’s sleep—I would come over and make us breakfast.
When I went over, it was already afternoon, but I woke her up anyway. She got up and opened the door. She didn’t run to the bathroom, she didn’t do makeup, and there was no boundary between us. And that was awesome!
If you love somebody, try to notice the beauty in these situations. I often talk and write about serious matters, about accepting the extreme, about the interplay between the sacred and the profane. There is no difference between a saint and a sinner—it’s always the same woman.
Do you still like to impose your point of view on others?
In my life I always want to err on the inspiring side, but I like balance in relationships, too. I want to inspire and be inspired.
So girls with their eyes fixed on you, saying ‘yes, yes, yes’ to everything—they’re not your type?
She can fix her eyes on me, but she has to make me fix my eyes on her, too.
How can a woman impress you?
In many ways. For example, by possessing knowledge in areas that I don’t have. If I see that she knows about a type of art that I have no knowledge of, or when it turns out that she fluently speaks a language that sounds like aliens talking to me—these are reasons for me to admire her. She needs to have character. No taste is worse than bad taste.
I live off music and for music, so I always ask women what they listen to. There are two answers that mean instant disqualification: ‘the radio’ or ‘everything’. It’s not just about music, by the way, that’s just an example. Sometimes more prosaic things touch me. When a woman cooks some exotic meal, for example.
That sounds a bit chauvinistic!
Fighting stereotypes causes more stereotypes—even bigger ones, sometimes. Just because a woman can cook it doesn’t mean that her place is in the kitchen. Let’s not get paranoid. There is a set of features that can make a man melt. What I am looking for is something that my mother might give me: a lot of attention and being taken care of. You need to find balance, though, so that your partner is not pampered and softened. I don’t want my woman to be a housewife: I just want her to take care of things. When I hear ‘Did you eat?’ or ‘Drive carefully’, I feel much better. I need attention.
On the other hand, overprotection irritates me. A woman shouldn’t be a child. But this aspect varies. What I respect in women is when they’re independent, but sometimes I also like it when they behave like little girls.
And do you like to behave like a little boy, then?
I expect some space. It might seem like I’m being a spoiled kid, but she should laugh at this instead of treating it as a sign of immaturity. You just can’t be the father all the time.
Maybe you should try dating older women?
When I was young, I was impressed by older and more experienced girls. But that has changed with time. I’ve already had a relationship with a woman who was eleven years younger than I was. She was nineteen, but she seemed sharp and mature. There was a lot of freshness in that relationship. But subconsciously, I expected the mind of a thirty-year-old from her.
But people that young can’t possibly have had any major life experiences.
This situation was even worse because the girl had grown up without a father. But I like a challenge. Perhaps it’s my innate naivety—or maybe it’s idealism—but I do learn how to notice things I used to ignore. Now, when I meet a girl, I check if she has younger siblings.
I was in a bar in Sopot, where I met my neighbour. I’ve never talked to him; we’ve always just exchanged pleasantries. This time he stuck to me. He was absolutely drunk and immediately started telling me how fucked up his life was.He was babbling, but suddenly he said, ‘It doesn’t matter if you’re a star or not. Remember, Adam, you always have to know what house you come from.’ That’s a smart rule. When everything is OK between the parents, and the girl has younger brothers or sisters, I’m immediately calmer. Why? Because the chances of me getting into a pathological relationship with this girl are significantly reduced.
What irritates you most about women?
Pettiness.
Why?
My world is quite unusual; I fly above the ground and I get crazy. If my woman likes her life well organised, well, then there is a conflict. Suddenly it turns out that what is normal for me is a problem for her. Nothing comes out of it.
Maybe you are just too dominant for your partners? Maybe you give them too little air?
There are contradictions in each one of us. There is no single person whose world is perfectly organised and coherent. The same applies to my life. I do realise that it’s difficult to build a relationship with me. I always say that everybody can have their own opinions, but the longer I’m with someone I’m close to, the greater my need to impose my opinions on them. Often it’s about very straightforward things, too.
Do you still try to fill your girls’ world with your passion?
That was the case with Zuza, the one who was eleven years younger. I remember a fight we had about a trivial matter: we were watching the movie 300. I actually think it’s a hell of a good movie. Of course, it’s overblown and comic-like, but it has also become a landmark in that it began a new, digitalised trend in movie production. It’s also beautiful visually.
After the first sex-scene, which for me was splendidly presented, Zuza looked at me and asked what kind of bullshit it was. There was a heated argument between us. We retreated, took out our s
hields, and for a few days our relations were very much cooler.
Fighting like that about a movie or music: isn’t that silly?
That’s what I am. I fight with my friends the same way. Rafal Szyjer—my good friend, and a great guitarist and teacher—once said that Zakk Wylde couldn’t play his instrument. We were just watching a Black Label Society DVD with our friends. I love their music, and Zakk Wylde is an absolute master of guitar for me. And Rafal, just like that, started talking some bullshit, saying that the guy lacks technique, that he plays sloppy, that he misses notes … so I talked trash to him. I really went hardcore and he didn’t talk to me until the end of the party. I was fucking pissed, because I couldn’t stand that someone who is a musician himself couldn’t see quality where it is clearly visible. You don’t have to like Black Label Society, but you can’t deny that they’re a professional band.
You never negate the quality of music you simply don’t like?
I hate the Polish indie band Myslovitz. When they’re on the radio, my face turns red with anger, and I feel like shooting the speaker … but I do appreciate them. In a way, I even support them, because I know that they are great within their niche. I read their biography, and I watch their interviews with pleasure.
Artur Rojek, whose singing I so despised, is not with them anymore, but I really respect the guy. He does a great job, for example by organising the Off Festival in Katowice. I just hate the manner in which he howled, and the way his colleagues played. Sometimes I’m even terrified by the way I can separate my taste from rational evaluation.
Is there anything that terrifies you about the opposite sex?
The hidden side of women. And I mean in terms of character, not appearance.
A ‘Miss Hyde’ scenario?
Exactly. You meet somebody and at first you’re charmed, and then when it comes to an extreme situation, you find out what a bitch she can be. Nothing even foreshadows it. She is a true oasis of peace, she loves children and animals, and she’s empathetic … and then she suddenly explodes. She becomes mean and vindictive.
Confessions Of A Heretic: The Sacred And The Profane: Behemoth And Beyond Page 6