No. But I would never say a pig is not intelligent. They’re shrewd and clever. I don’t touch them for other reasons. It’s the worst meat there is: it’s unhealthy, it’s fat, and it contains a lot of toxins.
And cows?
I eat beef from time to time, but it has to be well prepared. I have a few trusted places where it’s made and served well. Then it’s definitely worth trying.
Do you fight with your vegetarian friends?
On the contrary, I often defend them. Whenever there is a conflict between them and the meat-eaters, and the latter claim that you need to eat meat because it’s the source of strength, vital energy, and other important elements, I take the vegetarians’ side—partly out of spite, of course, because I love playing devil’s advocate, but also because I love freedom. Besides, I’ve never met a person who could tell me why the biggest mammals—elephants and whales—are not carnivorous.
Well, you are, and you don’t get the point about our animal friends.
I believe that you can’t just take a race, a nation, or even a group of people and tell them that they need particular things. Be it a god or a cow. It doesn’t matter. You have to believe in God, because God is good; you have to eat cows, because cow is healthy; you have to do sports, because it’s healthy … it’s all bullshit!
I knew sportsmen who died young and I know smokers who lived for many years. I know vegetarians who are as fit as a fiddle and I know some who are anaemic. I have met a lot of wonderful and good people who have never been to a church and I’ve had the misfortune of meeting a lot of Christians who are fucking assholes. I could go on like that forever. Eat what is good for you. Don’t give a fuck about the guys who try to persuade you otherwise.
And isn’t it the truth that obesity doesn’t serve anybody well?
Obese people are usually those who don’t care what they put on their plates. They just stuff themselves with whatever unhealthy crap is within reach at a given moment. There is no awareness in that. They devour food; it’s mechanical. Besides, obesity is often the result of laziness, of which I am a fierce enemy. People who eat consciously rarely get obese. And even if they do, then they probably need it, as that’s what their priorities are dictating. Maybe if they ate less they would be unhappy?
There are different cultures, different models of beauty, and different models of health. We tend to think that some things are universal, but they seem universal only here and now. I don’t want to compare and judge them. I choose my own model, but I don’t want to impose it on others.
Since we’re talking about different cultures, do you think that the culinary tradition can tell us anything about the place it comes from?
Of course. I travel a lot and I always try to eat food that’s synonymous with that given region. It’s very educating. There are people who go to Egypt or Mexico on holiday. They just lie on the beach and eat exactly the same stuff as they eat at home. For me that’s pointless. Wherever I go, I like to go outside, see the people and get some inside information about the place. And I like to find a bar where they serve regional food. Although I feel a bit reluctant to try such food sometimes …
You mentioned that you wouldn’t eat a dog …
There’s this guy on TV called Anthony Bourdain. He goes to the most bizarre places in the world and eats the most sophisticated dishes. When I see how they cook a reptile’s tail or some other animal’s genitals for him in the jungle, I feel comfortable with my limitations. But that doesn’t mean I don’t admire the guy. I really like his radical, anarchic hedonism. His shows are a real feast—for the eyes.
Aren’t you inclined to break your culinary taboo sometimes?
There are aspects of life in which I try to break all limitations, but there are also ones where I knowingly limit my impulses.
Do you eat fast food?
At four in the morning, after a lot of alcohol … then, it might happen. But to eat this shit, sober, in plain daylight? When I see people stuffing themselves with large buns with a lump of meat inside, it’s like watching pigeons feasting on vomit or rats rummaging through waste. There’s emptiness in their eyes—like watching hens about to be slaughtered. I feel sick at the very sight of it.
What about stimulants? Do you put good alcohol alongside your plate?
I don’t drink much, but a dinner with good wine is advisable.
Do you know anything about wine at all?
I prefer white, so I obviously don’t. I choose what suits me at a given moment. I usually eat fish rather than meat, so white wine suits fish better. Besides, I feel better after it; it doesn’t seem to overload your liver as much. It’s a question of preference.
What about other alcohol?
As I said, I don’t drink much. And I seldom drink spirits. I just don’t feel the need.
Drugs. Do you take them? Do you like them?
I’ve tried, but I was never sucked into it.
You seem to break the mould of the typical rock’n’roll musician …
Thankfully. I don’t like clichés.
… who doesn’t drink much, says drugs are bad …
I didn’t say that. There is nothing wrong with drugs—each to their own. We just have to know how to use some of these things. Sometimes I smoke a joint or eat a hash-cookie, but it happens rarely, and only when someone treats me to it.
And cocaine? Have you tried it?
It has happened. I liked it even more than marijuana or hashish. But I would never buy it myself.
Because it’s illegal?
No, that’s irrelevant. I am all for the legalisation of drugs, especially soft ones. Poland would benefit from the taxes, and the police would get more time to take care of serious stuff.
Let’s face it: chasing kids with weed in their pockets is not serious. It’s the same with prostitution. I would legalise that, too. Everyone would benefit from it. It doesn’t mean that I have to go to a brothel every week or stuff myself with drugs every day.
Are drugs dangerous, in your opinion?
A lot of things are dangerous. I’m convinced that vodka and cigarettes kill many more people than drugs. The law should be built on cold calculation. If we ban drugs, why do we let people buy alcohol and smoke tobacco?
Would you support a ban on them, then?
I think that adults deserve the right to decide about their own life choices. If they want to poison themselves, let them do it. It’s not my business.
What about kids?
It’s difficult for me to place myself in the position of a parent. Recently, we’ve been talking about it among friends. Some of them have kids, and we were discussing how to protect them from addiction. Alcohol, drugs, everything that’s attractive to teenagers—the fact they’re forbidden is a factor, too. If I ever have children, and I hope I will one day, I would rather they taste the forbidden fruit at home than on the street. I’ll have a joint myself and smoke with them. I’ll drink their first beer with them; I’ll explain how it all works.
But you won’t inject heroin into their veins?
You’re kidding. I’d be afraid of heroin myself. I’ve seen heroin’s effect on people, and that’s enough for me.
You mentioned you’re all for the legalisation of prostitution. Have you ever used these services?
I don’t have to pay for sex.
But did you ever try it?
Twice. My attitude toward reality is strictly empirical. I have to try something before judging it. It happened for the first time in the late 90s. I could barely make ends meet back then; actually I was quite poor, and I couldn’t afford that kind of entertainment. But after one party I found myself in my friend’s house in Warsaw. Today, he is a respectable man; he’s got a wife and kids. I won’t mention his name. He worked in the drinks business and he earned quite a lot of money. After some heavy drinking, he offered to take me to a brothel. We went there, we picked two girls, he paid for them, and off we went. My girl was, at first glance, not bad. But when I looked at her close
ly, my vision returned …
There are no ugly women; sometimes you just need more wine?
Too much wine was the problem. ‘Beer goggles’, I think it’s called. Drunk as I was, I couldn’t help notice that this was one nasty women standing in front of me. The walls were decorated with mirrors. I looked in one of them and all I saw this jerk with a cheap hooker. It was really bad.
Suddenly there was a knock at the door. It turned out that my friend had a problem. The other girl came to our room and informed us that my friend had fallen asleep instead of getting horny. She started moaning that it was a brothel, not a hotel, and that I should wake him up. I called a cab and we went home. But he wouldn’t let it go. He pulled himself together and tried to say that it was a bad agency, and that he’d show me where the real cats were.
Did you agree to that?
I was drunk. But I do remember that he got his phone and called girls. I’m there, sitting next to him, dying of laughter. Completely off his face, but very polite and to the point, he explained to someone on the phone exactly what kind of girls we wanted: sizes, hair colour, everything in detail. Eventually, he says, ‘You know, please don’t disappoint us.’
Were there any available?
Two ladies with stretched sweaters and greasy hair came to us. They were very disappointing. I was tired of it all and more than a little embarrassed. I politely declined and went to the other room.
Was your friend up to the task?
I heard the frame of his bed bashing against the wall, so I think he was content.
That was your first time, what about the second? What happened then?
The second time, I fell in love with a hooker. It was during our tour with Carpathian Forest in 2001. We had a day off and we were spending it in Amsterdam. Of course, we went to see the red light district. It was winter, but the ladies in the shop windows didn’t seem to mind. They were flexing, smiling coquettishly, alluring us. And then I saw this brunette—a dark-haired version of Venus of Milo. She was Greek, and she looked like a real goddess. I told the guys that I just had to have her, and I told them there was no stopping me. I won’t go into details but I was disappointed again. So I got hookers out of my head for good.
The goddess didn’t meet the expectations?
We’ve talked about it already; I’m an idealist. I value intimacy and conversation, not just sex.
Do you have any sexual fetishes?
I am a fan of shapely butts. I am one of these guys who think that a woman does not necessarily need large breasts if she has shapely hips and something to sit on.
Do you have many erotic fantasies?
Of course I do. But I’m not about to confess them in public. When I meet a girl that I am interested in, I try to check out what her attitude to sex is. If she can talk about intimate situations with ease, it’s a signal that she’s open. And this, in turn, means that we can do some crazy stuff in bed and let our fantasies carry us on. That’s great! Openness in bed also means the same attitude toward other things, and I like brave women.
Do you prefer to make love during the day or the night, as a real devil should?
I’m a day creature. I love mornings. Good exercise, good coffee, good sex … my potency is at its peak in the morning. I used to date a girl who wouldn’t wake up before noon. Our biological clocks were completely off. That’s something you just can’t help.
Do you like porn magazines?
Pornography is healthy. It can’t replace real sex but it can help bridge some gaps. It develops imagination, makes you experiment. Sometimes it even educates.
Porn in schools?
Let’s not get carried away. Besides, young people know what’s going on. They will find what they need. I read The Art Of Loving as a kid.
You once said that if you hadn’t become a musician, you would have been a porn star.
It was a joke, of course. But I don’t have any problems with getting naked. The guys from the band will tell you that.
Do you get naked in front of them?
Sometimes I run around naked in the dressing room after the show. But, to be honest, I don’t think I could handle the porn business. Even if I have sex for fun, I still feel strong emotions. I’m not a robot.
You can’t separate feeling from sex?
I can, but only to some extent. When you shoot a good, high-budget porn movie, the actors screw in the company of a few or even a dozen people. I don’t think such circumstances would be ideal for me.
But you often talk about porn stars. Have you met anyone from that field?
Many times, but mostly in the States. Some of them are our fans. There was this guy in a Behemoth T-shirt at our show. He was from the I Love Vagina label. It was funny. I met the icon of that scene a few times, Ron Jeremy, and he was always accompanied by busty, plastic-looking blondes. It looked great, because his height and general appearance are quite lousy. He looks like a moron, wearing flip-flops and stretched sports clothes. But he can sell himself perfectly. I’d like to meet porn director Rocco Siffredi one day. His accent is hilarious. And he appears quite relaxed: a guy with perspective.
What do you like about his movies?
I like their naturalism. These are real documentaries. I think he sees beauty in every woman. I envy him because I don’t see women that way.
What about actresses?
I love Belladonna. She’s the absolute top. She’s got this certain Pulp Fiction Uma Thurman look. She’s wildly perverse and open.
A lot of porn movies are pure craft, like watching a guy hammering nails into a fence. No finesse, no passion, no spark in the eye. Belladonna’s movies are different. This girl does crazy things; she’s always full of passion and not only that; there is no taboo for her. Her pornography is art.
Do you see any boundaries for such ‘art’?
Child pornography. In that case, it’s zero tolerance.
Psychologists say that every kind of pornography falsifies reality.
I’m sorry, but I like false reality.
So maybe you will change your mind and appear in a movie? With Belladonna, maybe?
I don’t think so, but you already know how it is when I swear I would never do something in my life. Never say never, right?
Seeing what you wear makes it obvious that you are volatile. You like good clothes?
I do, because I value quality. Always and everywhere. We talked about food earlier; it’s the same here. When I was a student, I ate sausages and I washed them down with curdled milk. It was tasty, but with time I discovered that you could eat differently and better.
It’s the same with clothes. A leather jacket and combat boots used to be enough for me, but not today. Italian shoes made of good leather; something exclusive, one of a kind: that’s what I need. You may say I’m vain. Maybe, but just a little, because I seek quality in every aspect of life. You couldn’t call me vain if I surround myself with quality people, so why would surrounding myself with quality items and wearing quality clothes make me vain?
The proverb says beauty is only skin deep.
Bullshit! Everything we choose knowingly is a part of our beauty. Disdain for carnality is a result of 2,000 years of waiting for the kingdom that only comes when we die. I reject that fairy tale, and I reject the disdain for temporality. What we wear is what we are; it shapes our image in the eyes of people.
Do you feel like you look good in what you wear?
I feel comfortable, that’s for sure. Besides, I play with my clothes. I think that’s what fashion is all about. It’s not about following any particular trend but about having fun. And sometimes it’s about provocation, too. Of course, I won’t wear something that I don’t feel good in. That would be the overriding rule. Other rules? There are no other rules.
Some people say that you look a bit metrosexual.
Should I look like a typical metal caveman instead? Should I be dirty and stinky? I still consider myself a metal-head, but I never signed a pact with the devil and
I never promised that I would run around in combat trousers until the end of my life. In my dictionary there is no such word as ‘should’. It’s exactly what we discussed before: eat meat, it’s good for you … I am the one who knows which trousers look good on me. I don’t force anybody to wear them. Besides, let people talk about me and say that I’m metrosexual. They can even say that I’m gay if they want. I don’t have a problem with it as long as women tell me that I look like a man.
What do you think about gay people? Metal isn’t very welcoming to them, is it?
In Poland it’s not, but in the West that’s in the past. I have a few gay friends. I like to make jokes with them, but not because I’m homophobic. I do it because I love joking. Besides, I think our nation is slowly becoming open to homosexuals and accepting them.
Some time ago, we went to a party with Voice Of Poland contestant Damian Ukeje. It was the middle of the night and we were leaving a bar on Plac Zbawiciela in Warsaw. We had the munchies, and we had to eat something. We went into another bar and some guy comes up to us—I think he was gay—and tells us they’re closing down and we won’t get anything to eat. We’re about to leave when Ukeje screams, ‘Then fuck you in the ass!’ The guy smiles at him and says, ‘Oh! That would actually be a pleasure.’
We could get seriously beaten for saying something like that in a smaller city. But Warsaw is already a bit different. My friend’s excess was met with humour—even with a bit of playful perversion.
So when you have a homophobe and a homosexual in front of you, you’ll take the side of the latter?
Of course. And I would take the side of a Jew, a black guy, a mason …
Like Jesus. He always defended the persecuted, right?
Stop kidding me.
What about feminists?
I like to make fun of them, too. I don’t consider myself a sexist pig. I like strong and independent women, and sometimes I even admire them, but I don’t get some of their posturing. Why would your gender decide whether you’re going to be hired or not? Shouldn’t it be about your skills and predispositions? Every woman and every man has potential, and gender has nothing to do with it.
Confessions Of A Heretic: The Sacred And The Profane: Behemoth And Beyond Page 22