We entered the Classification office building. Ms. Waters led me down the hall to her office where we had a chance to get to know one another and where I could get a feel for where I was.
I received some instruction on the duties and responsibilities of Classification Specialists. They are assigned a particular inmate and are responsible to monitor the inmate’s progress within the institution. They actually control the inmate by assuring proper custody, job assignments, vocational/educational enrollments for rehabilitation, enrollment in drug abuse rehabilitation, and handle discipline problems that arise. It is their job to maintain continuity for the inmate while incarcerated.
It was noted that inmates are separated by their behavior within the institution and not by their crime. The type of custody they’ve been sentenced under categorizes each inmate. For example, Julie falls under “close custody.”
Ms. Waters talked about Julie and what I could expect during our meeting. She also said that Julie was an ideal prisoner because she never caused problems, or required disciplining. Julie was doing well inside under the circumstances. Her job assignment was in the law library where she excelled as a law clerk.
As Ms. Waters spoke, I observed inmates in the hallways and outside through the window in her office. I thought about the simple fact that when the interview was over I could walk away and back into freedom, while these women remained jailed with their nightmares and demons.
I waited for Julie to arrive.
6
Julie came down the hallway dressed in a state issue; Class A, blue uniform with black work boots. Her blond hair was shoulder length, straight with bangs. Her blue eyes sparkled but were outlined in red from crying. She walked tall and straight but appeared timid and shy. She has always been quiet and polite. What was most noticeable was the uncertain smile. It was uncomfortable meeting under the conditions, but I was encouraged by her smile. The next few moments would be critical. There just isn’t any protocol available to explain how to behave. It was awkward to say the least for both of us. What she did to Charley was staggering, and yet, she had been a friend.
I wasn’t looking into the eyes of a depraved, sinister, dangerous monster. I was looking into the eyes of a person who had made a terrible mistake. She seemed almost vulnerable. We exchanged nervous greetings and remained apprehensive for the time being. I was unsure of whether or not my questions would yield positive results. And she was uncertain as to whether or not I would terrorize her. I felt as we sat together inside the small, ice-cold Classification office that I needed to explain the ground rules I had already established. My questions were not intended to be judgmental. And, she could refuse to answer any question at any time.
As the initial tension faded, I placed my tape recorder near her. She clutched at several tissues in her hands. She sat up straight and rigid in her chair for the entire time we spent together that day...and often broke down, and cried. She never once refused to answer a question no matter how difficult it was. She never once asked to stop the interview. She gave everything she had, and more.
Her body language included tight fists and horrified expressions. When she described her actions the night of the murder she relived the entire vivid, tortured nightmare all over again as if it were just happening. I watched as she demonstrated the cutting motions, and how she cuddled him.
What I cannot add on these pages is the tone and inflection in her voice. I cannot add the tears or the many pauses to gather her self. Nor can I add the look of trauma on her face.
The interviews took place on June 14 and July 14 of 1999. The following transcription is verbatim as far as Julie’s words are spoken.
STONE: I’d like to interview Chuck and your parents. I don’t know if they’d be willing, or how they would feel about that.
JULIE: I have no problem with you talking to Chuck and mom, but you need to remember I have never discussed with either of them why I did this. Neither one has ever asked me. Weird, huh?
STONE: Do you still want to discuss it with me?
JULIE: I have had many people request interviews with me. I’ve never responded. I can’t pinpoint exactly why I trust you but I’m counting on you to give it your best to make something positive (anything positive) come of this horrible tragedy. If you were to make it into something it wasn’t, or change it from the truth, it would be the mortal blow. The truth is nearly impossible to live with. Sensationalism would kill me, literally.
STONE: You’re the only one that can tell us the story. There isn’t anybody better that can tell us how not to have this happen. Ready?
[Julie nodded affirmatively.]
STONE: What was your childhood like?
JULIE: I say my childhood was okay, I guess, because I wasn’t abused. But I witnessed abuse on the person I loved most. Nowadays, in 1999, it’s a crime to commit abuse or domestic violence in front of a child...so in reality it was terrible, emotional abuse. It hurt so bad, and I was too young to understand. He was, uh...
STONE: You’re referring to your adopted brother John? You were upset that he was treated different, abused by your parents?
JULIE: He was severely abused, beaten several times a week, degraded, humiliated, belittled. He had emotional problems from many foster homes, etc. The subject has always been taboo. To this day, nobody has ever mentioned what my brother went through. Back then, you didn’t call the police, you know, back then. No, it was like... Back then 25, 30 years ago, you didn’t do that. That wasn’t something that was done. And, um, so it just kind of, um, progressed...that was from my mother.
STONE: Your mother abused John?
JULIE: My father was drinking a lot back then. He had a heart of gold, but he couldn’t control mom––no one could. As a result, I think he drank more... She had problems––nerves, very bad. Dad was now gone all the time and John was a handful. She couldn’t cope. The abuse stopped when John turned sixteen. It just stopped. When John turned seventeen, he made my dad sign to let him enlist in the Marines. He did and we’ve rarely seen him since. I know he had to have hated me for being spoiled by mom and not doing anything. But everyone was scared of her.
STONE: How is your brother doing now? Do you see him?
JULIE: He’s never talked to me since this happened. I’ve told myself so many times to write him but I can’t do it. Maybe he’ll read this book and at least understand that all he went through did affect me very much. And he could never believe the amount of guilt I have. And, how much I love him. He now has his own family and is an excellent husband and father.
STONE: Would you tell me a favorite childhood memory?
JULIE: It was definitely when the abuse stopped. Dad stopped drinking and mom became miraculously loving towards John.
STONE: Your parents were good to you?
JULIE: Well, they treated me fantastic. I was, uh, very spoiled. And uh, resented it, uh, resented my... And my brother resented it too. It caused problems for my mother and I. And I got a little older...but no, I was always treated very well.
STONE: So during your teenage years everything settled down?
JULIE: Better. Got older, um, and my mother seemed to just calm down. And, uh, she and my brother actually became kind of close. Strange how they have, really have no explanation for what happened for all those years. From the time he was about 3 or 4 until he was about 14 or 15.
STONE: Could you talk with your parents?
JULIE: No, I always worried about everyone else and kept anything going on with me to myself. And I would never rock the boat with mom. As I got older, I became very close to my dad. I could talk to him. Eventually, he became my hero. He was always there for me.
STONE: Your father was an alcoholic?
JULIE: Yes. He, uh, he worked five days a week, had a very good job, very, very intelligent man, and on weekends he would be in a stupor. And by Sunday night he’d sleep. And he’d wake up and come to work business as usual. He traveled a lot and I’m sure he’s going through a lot too...I gu
ess with mother. But he did drink. He was just basically, uh, such a good fellow, he really was. He just was ineffective as far as stepping in and preventing mother from ever doing these things. I was angry with him.
STONE: Do you think your mother would talk with me?
JULIE: My mother is in complete denial. I want you to know that I did not forward any information regarding my brother’s abuse. My father, after being diagnosed with terminal cancer, told Mark about it. My mother was furious and since finding out did not want me to go to trial. She wanted none of it to come out. I understood that. My dad felt that it contributed in some way to my special feelings for Charley. He just wanted to help.
STONE: So there wasn’t any kind of verbal, physical, or sexual abuse toward you as a child?
JULIE: None.
STONE: Are you a religious person?
JULIE: Not really, no.
STONE: What do you think God will say to you?
JULIE: I think He will say I was wrong but He understands what happened. He will let me be with Charley...but not until He’s ready.
STONE: Do you think God listens to us?
JULIE: I don’t know that He really listens to me so it may sound stupid, but often I ask someone else to pray for me. I tell them He’s still angry with me right now. I guess I feel I don’t have a right to ask anything of Him.
STONE: Attempted suicide at age 14?
JULIE: Had to do with the things going on in my pre-teen years, adolescence. They pumped my stomach.
STONE: When did you begin having a problem with drugs?
JULIE: January 1,1986. Broke my elbow with Chuck on New Year’s Eve. We really don’t know what happened to it. I was prescribed Vicodin and became addicted long before I realized I was.
STONE: When and where were you first arrested for substance abuse and prescription fraud?
JULIE: I believe it was January 1986 when I started. I was arrested about a year later in Seminole County.
STONE: Will you attend a rehabilitation program while incarcerated?
JULIE: I am very familiar with the twelve-step program, I read the Big Book, and will either enroll in drug treatment or the Tier V relapse prevention program.
STONE: Was the Methadone Clinic helpful?
JULIE: Methadone has helped many people. I would consider it a last resort kind of therapy. If you’re serious about not breaking the law and not getting high it works, but it’s maintenance. I hated it after a while, and I think I got off it out of mere stubbornness. Everyone told me I’d never after four years get out of the clinic––that I’d be back. I couldn’t accept that.
STONE: Did you receive any counseling?
JULIE: No counseling. Only a means to maintain a “treatment” for hard-core drug users. It’s an “after care” program after rehab.
STONE: Dr. Kirkland said you suffered from Major Depression, Mixed Personality Disorder (Bipolar), and that you suffered from psychosis that night mixed with misuse of prescription medications. Did you know that you were suffering from these before 1996?
JULIE: I do not believe, and in fact know I’m not “bipolar.” I’ve been depressed with valid reason to be and I have never been manic. I believe this is just one of these “boilerplate diagnosis” that doctors stick on people when they don’t care enough to find out what’s really going on. They do it to everyone here. It’s the “in-style” diagnosis. I don’t accept that. I always assumed my depression was situational so how could an anti-depressant alleviate the situation. That’s what the Hydrocodone did though––temporarily masked it.
STONE: Could previous contact with psychiatric or health care professionals have been a point of recognition and prevention?
JULIE: Perhaps if I was willing to open up. I opened up in drug treatment at the Pavilion to one counselor. His advice after meeting Chuck once was “get the hell away from that guy.” I couldn’t for long. I loved him...he was my second addiction...I was his.
STONE: Do you have other dependencies? Alcohol? Smoking?
JULIE: I stopped the drinking because my husband, instead of trying to help me, was using it as a weapon – continuously calling the police. They always made him leave the house though. He finally went down and filed a restraining order against me, and had the kids and I removed from his house. You read the report he wrote. Do you honestly think if the things he said were true, he would have kicked Charley out with me, leaving him with me? As long as I had one drink in me, I had no defense so I quit – that quick.
STONE: Do you think your dependencies were genetic?
JULIE: Yes, alcoholism on both sides of my family for generations.
STONE: You said in the note you left that night that you never wanted Ashley to be trapped by a man. Are you dependent on men?
JULIE: I chose marriage at a young age for security. When the marriage goes bad, that security becomes their power––their leverage. They can provide the kids with everything, and they can out spend you in court, or tie you up in nasty litigation literally ruining your life. The children become pawns and the woman has nothing to offer them but unconditional love. That counts for nothing in court. I want my daughter to be everything I wasn’t––independent, self-reliant, and to get married only if she wants to. I want it to be an asset not a necessity. I can already see an independence in her that was never present in me. I’m proud of her because she’s going to make it.
STONE: I understand you work in the law library.
JULIE: Right.
STONE: Is it a good experience for you?
JULIE: Yes, um, it’s a real good experience and it keeps my mind very active. And I’ve always been a “caretaker” person, and everything. And in here, it gives me the opportunity to help. So it’s, yeah, it’s...my sanity in here. And, uh, I like my job and I’m doing very well.
STONE: I’m told you’ve never had any disciplinary problems in here.
JULIE: Right.
STONE: That’s a good thing.
JULIE: That’s a good thing, yes.
STONE: What does your work involve in the law library?
JULIE: We research for inmates and basically look for any vehicle to get them back into the courts. It’s a major law library––criminal, family law, some civil.
STONE: Anything that would be beneficial for your case?
JULIE: Everyone is real upset with me. They feel I should be working on my case instead of everyone else’s (ineffective) assistance of council. I won’t go back to trial. I can’t sit before twelve jurors who have to decide who they are going to believe––the state, or me. I don’t want to have to try and outsmart the state. To me there is only one truth and I’ve already adjudicated myself and sentenced myself. It’s a life sentence...not twenty-five years.
STONE: I want to try and understand how you got to the point of taking Charley’s life and what can be done to prevent such a tragedy in the future.
JULIE: It’s hard to understand this kind of thing happening but when you take all of the events over a period of years it’s easier to understand how it got to this point and why I was thinking the way I was.
STONE: The questions get more difficult from here. Are you able to keep going?
JULIE: Yes.
STONE: Was your marriage to David abusive?
JULIE: No.
STONE: Did your addiction cause you any problems there?
JULIE: I wasn’t addicted to any drugs at that time.
STONE: What was the reason for the divorce?
JULIE: David and I grew up together. We were friends since we were like twelve years old. And, um, we liked each other as little children, you know. And we kinda went our separate ways. And then we met up again in high school and we double-dated. He went with his girlfriend and I went with my boyfriend. Then again we kind of went our separate ways and moved to Arizona, my family. And he went off to school in the University of Florida. And then by chance we moved back to Florida and I ran into him one night down on Park Avenue. And we started dating im
mediately.
I should never have married David. I loved him. He was a very, very dear friend, but I wasn’t in-love with him. As a matter-of-fact, shortly after our engagement, um, I had gone to my mother and told her that I didn’t think that I could go through with the marriage. I just couldn’t. It wasn’t going to work. It wasn’t going to last. Something was missing.
And, uh, my mother had a fit, you know, she had an absolute fit. “It was a great family! You’re crazy! What’s wrong with you? He’s a great guy!” No, I know all of that but something’s just not, something’s just not right. Well, anyway, she bullied me and tormented me until where I just... I’ve always backed down to my mother. And, I did. I backed down and went through with the marriage.
STONE: Mother was a strong woman?
JULIE: Very domineering. My father was the passive one, very compassionate. My mother was––appearances meant everything.
Through a Mother's Eyes Page 8