Thomson then impressed upon De László the necessity, in time of war, to have the matters he had raised investigated, with which De László agreed. He again, however, denied having received the letter in question. They discussed Baron Forster and De László said that he had kept all his letters from him, but not copies of his letters to him, but that their contents could be deduced from the replies. In particular he referred to correspondence which had passed about meetings that his brother had had with Count Andrassy, leader of the Hungarian opposition in Parliament and president of the Art Society, about the naturalisation. Fortunately his brother had kept a copy of a letter he had received two years before the war talking about British naturalisation, which had convinced him that Andrassy was genuine. Having presumably seen the copied correspondence from MI5 and the Special Section, Thomson pointed out that this letter must have come through the diplomatic bag. De László responded that he couldn’t say because it was only recently that he had started keeping the couverts (envelopes).
Thomson returned to the delicacy of his position: ‘You were naturalized after the beginning of the war, yet, when you ought to have had everything smooth and open, you are sending letters clandestinely through the Legation Bag.’ Expressing his regret, De László solemnly promised that they would never find any letters either sent or received by him about the war. When asked whether it had ever occurred to him that he was in breach of the censorship law, he said it had never occurred to him until he had heard van Swinderen discussing it on the phone in August 1916, and since then he had not sent anything by that route.
Thomson then produced a letter dated 24 July 1917 from Madame van Riemsdyk to Mrs De László, in which she said that she was sending it by ‘the ordinary route’. Didn’t this imply that she was using another route up to that time? De László was adamant that he had not sent anything out by that route, and said that he had promised as much to the Attorney General on meeting him. When he discovered Madame van Riemsdyk was still using the bag to send items to him, he had written to her asking her not to, and had later asked his wife to do the same thing. He was quite sure that of the five or six letters that had gone out through the bag, all had gone before August 1916.
Thomson then asked De László about a set of family photographs he had sent to Hungary. De László said it was probable they had gone via the legation but didn’t remember. Thomson pointed out that the censorship did not allow such things to go through the ordinary post, so they must have gone through the bag to Holland. There was an acknowledgement of receipt of these photos dated 5 August 1917, so surely they must have gone out quite recently? De László fell back on what appears to have been a usual tactic, changing the subject by saying, ‘I received photographs of my people – snapshots of the family’, which must have come to him via the embassy the previous year.
Quite why Thomson should have left it there we don’t know, but he suddenly announced that De László could return to Datchet and that the authorities would let him know when he would next be required. No doubt MI5 continued to have him watched and his mail intercepted.
The man heading the MI5 investigation at this time was Major Ernest St George Anson, an officer in the regular army of some experience. Born in 1874 and educated at Clifton College, he had seen extensive service during the Boer War, fighting in the Relief of Ladysmith, at Colenso, Spion Kop, the Tugela Heights, Pieters Hill and Laing’s Nek. He had been adjutant of the 3rd Battalion of the East Surreys, and had qualifications in gymnastics, musketry, signalling, cycling and supply. He also spoke French. Having gone to France in January 1915, he was presumably wounded or taken sick at the front and, after a period of recuperation, posted to MI5 in December 1915. He remained in G2 Section (investigation of the bona fides of persons) until December 1919. Whilst senior officers and experienced lawyers sat in on the interrogations, Anson was the man who co-ordinated things behind the scenes. He would have decided the priorities for the investigators, examined new evidence as it came in, and discussed it with Vernon Kell, who had the delicate job of deciding what action to take over a man with so many high-level connections. Basil Thomson, in the meantime, was making more public enquiries among people who had had their portraits painted over the previous couple of years or who knew De László personally.
Thomson contacted various of De László’s sitters and obtained a statement from Mrs Wanda Muller regarding his behaviour during the painting of her portrait:
I first went to Mr De László to have my picture painted about September 1915, but the first attempt was a failure. He then wrote to me asking to postpone the sittings for a month or so, as he had several officers to paint who were going to the war.
In October 1915 he started on a second canvas as he was not satisfied with what he had already done, but after one sitting which also failed to please him, he began a third picture.
I had met Mr De László in this country before going to Hungary in 1913 and thought he seemed intelligent with a gift for languages. He took a great interest in politics especially of course in those of his own country Hungary.
The first sitting for the third canvas took place before the end of October, and during the course of the sittings he talked a great deal about Hungary.
At one of the sittings he remarked on British politics and discussed the British policy with regard to Roumania. He criticised the action of the government on this question and also a good deal else in the country, from the point of view of a Hungarian. At another sitting he told me he hated the Servians [sic] and that he sincerely hoped that they would soon be wiped off the earth. I replied that it was impossible to admire all our allies equally and it was certainly not the moment to criticise them publicly whatever one’s own private opinions might be. It was obvious that he hated the Russians with the intense hatred of a Hungarian. In the end I told him that we had better not discuss politics as there was such flat disagreement between us. He looked upon everything from a Hungarian point of view and I from an English. I cannot remember any details of the conversation I had with Mr De László, but the impression he gave me was that his sympathies were still Hungarian to the backbone. He seemed to me to wish to have it both ways, to retain the advantages of living in England, and when the war came, he could not make up his mind to give up his Hungarian sympathies.
His visits to the different Courts of Europe had obviously turned his head, and he expressed the greatest admiration for the ‘Divine William’ and the King of Greece. On my expressing strong dissent from all his views in regard to the Emperor he exclaimed ‘Well, anyhow, that is what I think, and you will probably tell everyone that I am a pro-German.’ As a matter of fact he did not give me the impression of being a pro-German, but rather what he is, a Hungarian to the backbone, and I did not regard him as loyal Englishman.
Mr László was very indiscreet. He used to tell me what Mr Austen Chamberlain, and Mr Fisher (Lord Fisher’s son) and others had told him, but I am unable to remember any details of the conversations. I remember in particular Mr László telling me that he had a conversation on military matters with Major (blanked in original) an officer employed at the War Office. I was very disagreeably impressed at the time, though the conversation may not have been of much importance, as Mr László has told me himself that he sent letters in the Dutch Bag to friends in Hungary. In fact I was so disturbed that I went so far as to ask a mutual friend to warn Major (blanked in original) against talking so openly to Mr De László, as he was to all intents and purposes an enemy alien, and I did not regard him as a loyal British Subject.
Another unnamed sitter (probably Henry Vincent Higgins, a prominent solicitor) was presumably, from the content of the report, someone Thomson briefed in advance. A report dated 8 August 1917 read:
After some time L said suddenly ‘I am tired of pictures so let us talk about the war.’ He then said that England had a glorious opportunity now of making peace. As long as the Russian Empire was intact, she was in great danger, because, with Constantinople
and Persia, the Russians would cut her off from her eastern possessions. Now this danger passed, England stood victorious, and could accomplish all her ends. As to America, they did not intend to fight at all. Their object was merely to awaken a military spirit against the time they would have to fight against Mexico and Japan. Informant said these sentiments might have come from mouth of Bernstorff. It struck informant that L was delivering a series of sentiments put into his mouth for propaganda, because he invariably lacked the knowledge to combat arguments on the other side, and did not attempt to do so. It struck him that L was very vain of his accomplishments as a diplomatist and also very shallow, like his pictures.
Informant also tried more than once to bring the conversation round to Holland, and asked L whether he had any friends there, but he drew a blank every time. L did not deny knowing people but he appeared uninterested and uncommunicative.
Thomson also produced a report from another sitter, summarised in the evidence file, a lady whose husband, a civil servant, had reported:
Wife was sitting for L about two years ago (so late summer 1915). L was incessantly talking politics, and supporting the usual Hungarian view that Serbia ought to be wiped out of existence, and that the Russians were the natural enemies of mankind. His political bias was so marked, that at last his sitter had to request that he should not talk politics. It transpired that L was sending letters through the Dutch Legation bag, and (the sitter’s husband) thought it right to convey an unofficial warning, both to Mr Van Swinderen and to L, that this was contrary to the Regulations.
On 29 August, De László was again summoned to Scotland Yard, this time for an interrogation regarding the contents of some of his correspondence. The interview was conducted by Basil Thomson, with Vernon Kell sitting in for the first time, and another MI5 officer, Captain Sir Lindsey Smith, in attendance. Smith had only joined MI5 in June 1917, but he had had a formidable legal career, entering Middle Temple in 1889 and getting a first-class scholarship in Common and Criminal Law in1892. He was called to the Bar the same year. He had had long colonial service as president of HM Court of Appeal in East Africa between 1904 and 1909, and as a judge in the Supreme Court, China and Korea. In his youth he had been a useful rugby player for Surrey and the Barbarians.
Presumably this was held in Thomson’s office where, by design, the interviewee was seated in a lower chair than his interviewer, which was supposed to put him in an inferior position and make lying harder.
Thomson, who fancied himself as a master interrogator, started with some innocuous questions:
ACC:
I wanted to see you today on matters that have arisen through examination of your papers, because there are some things only you can explain. You know a certain Comte de Soissons?
PAL:
Comte de Soissons is an art critic and was introduced to me by a colleague. He has been in my studio four or five times and is, I think, rather a fool. When he last dined with me I had Mr Laughlin from the American Embassy and his wife and other guests with me, and he more or less insulted him. I have never seen the man since.
ACC
There is among your papers a letter from your brother-in-law dated 17th August 1914.
PAL:
Mr Kremer?
ACC
No, Mr Guinness (letter read to him). This implies you put down the origin of the war to the Russians rather than the Germans.
PAL
Yes, he came very often, and I remember we had a conversation and I said that there was always unrest amongst the Russians and that possibly the Russians were more or less to blame.
ACC
I think you have always since the outbreak of the war been subject to ‘Russo-phobia’?
PAL
I do not know. In 1848 the Hungarians fought for their independence against Austria and Austria was beaten. Then at the last moment, Austria united with Russia and behaved very badly towards them afterwards.
ACC
Since the war began it has been the current view throughout Hungary that Russia was responsible for the war.
PAL
Well, I do not know much about that.
ACC
What was Baron Forster’s view?
PAL
I assure you, Sir, that I have never had any political conversation with Forster. My connection with Forster is absolutely on an artistic footing.
ACC
Yes, but we know from various things that your view since the beginning of the war has been that the Russians were largely responsible for it. You said so to Mr Guinness.
PAL
Well, I said it to him, but it is very difficult to say that it is my view because one reads so much and we talk on the war; I give my opinion, but it cannot be taken as a serious matter.
ACC
No, there is nothing serious about it, I just wanted to get at your views.
PAL
I must have said that. We were probably having an argument and I naturally took the opposite view.
ACC
That is also the view of the official German party. The Kaiser has been good enough to tell us more than once.
PAL
Is that so? I remember once when I was invited to Wilhelmshaven I was very annoyed with the Kaiser. There was a big exhibition at Berlin arranged by Count Sechendorff who was a great friend of mine. There was one picture there, which is now in the National Gallery, by Reynolds, which the Kaiser loved, and he wanted me to paint a full-sized portrait of himself in the same position. I was very annoyed with him because he wanted me to paint in the corner of the picture some emblems – the German Imperial Crown. I said ‘What is the German Imperial Crown?’ He was very annoyed at my saying that and said ‘You ought to know better than to ask such a question. The German Imperial Crown is in Vienna and should have come to us after 1866, and of course you Hungarians do not like these things because you do not like the Germans at all.’
ACC
I suppose you preserve the photographs and telegrams with regard to the Kaiser from an historic point of view?
PAL
Yes.
ACC
That was one of the studies, was it not (photograph shown)?
PAL
Yes.
ACC
I want to run rapidly through one or two little points. You corresponded with and gave money to, I think, three young Hungarians. (Names mentioned.)
PAL
De Weress is a young gentleman of very good family from the south of Hungary. He came here to study, and when the Lusitania was sunk, the Hungarians, I understood from the American Ambassador, were interned and he with them, but before that he had written asking if I would see him, which I did. I saw he was a very nice man and we became friends. Through him I met a man named the Revd. Hankinson who was responsible for him. He is a Unitarian who had been in Hungary. Hankinson is engaged to Mrs Hill who is a niece of my wife.
ACC
Did you know De Weress was mixed up with the man named Rawson?
PAL
Yes, I know that too. Weress came to me several times in great distress saying how badly he had been treated by Mr Hankinson. Hankinson annoyed him very much, but I always told him he must bear it because after all the man had been very nice to him. He met a lady at Hankinson’s house and she brought him to that man Rawson and he became absolutely obsessed by Rawson.
ACC
Then you befriended him at Alexandra Palace by sending him Hungarian newspapers.
PAL
Yes, I received them through Louis Feldmann who was secretary of the Hungarian Society. When the war broke out he asked if I could help the Hungarians.
ACC
Was this before or after war had started?
PAL
Immediately after. Then I helped them. I think I gave altogether £60.00. Weress told me about Czeizner and then I introduced Czeizner to Hankinson. Then Weress was interned. I would like to tell you how I came to visit the Concentration Camp. Weress and
my niece met in my house. I always implored him not to go to Rawson. Before he was interned his parents were dining with us and I called him up to my room and asked him again to leave off these things. Then I heard through the girl that the money his parents were sending him was getting more and more reduced and that some law had been made in Hungary that he could only have a certain amount. I said to him ‘Weress, do not go to that man and I will give you £20 as I hear you are in need of money.’ He was very pleased and promised me not to go there again and I said ‘If you are in need of money I will give you more.’ The next morning we heard he was interned, so my wife, my niece and myself went to see him. To our great astonishment Weissner told us that Weress had been removed to the Isle of Man. Then I made the acquaintance of Weissner and liked him very much and helped him.
The Spy Who Painted the Queen Page 8