by Steve Stoute
STOUTE: Did you ever feel reverse racism? Did you ever feel that because you’re white, this is a black man’s thing? Was that a real thing you felt coming up?
EMINEM: Coming up there was always a bit of that. You had people who were going to say what they wanted to say—you shouldn’t do it, just because you’re this color or because you look like this or whatever. But I also had my crew of people and my crew of supporters, with Proof being the biggest one. At that time, if I ever got discouraged, they were there for me and would tell me to just keep going.
STOUTE: When did you feel you were crossing over, that black kids liked you and white kids like you, and when did you realize that you were crossing all demographics? You had made a lot of records where you commented about not being a wigger who made records and you brought up Elvis Presley. It feels that you were conscious of that, maybe that you had the responsibility not to repeat that history.
EMINEM: Well, obviously, I knew that people were going to make jokes and say what they were going to say. I felt that “crossing over” even on a smaller scale, before Dre or any of the fame or anything like that, just locally when I would do shows at places like the Hip-Hop Shop—when I would rap or freestyle or battle there and was the only white kid and started to get acceptance.... And just going up in there and getting acceptance from my peers back then was like, Wow, this actually could be possible. I was starting to gain respect from people who actually did hip-hop.
STOUTE: These were mostly black kids or maybe a few white kids now and then. But when you started really bringing different audiences together, did you realize that you were doing that? It seems to me that you felt your experience—being poor and white, coming from nothing, what I call the impoverished mind-set—was the same experience of kids of color growing up in the inner city. Were you aware that you were creating this common ground, that you were bringing like-minded kids together?
EMINEM: Well, I’d love to be able to say I had a plan for all this in the beginning. But I certainly didn’t ever know it would amount to that or be like that. I remember saying to people around me, even early on before we got signed to Dre, man, if I could have a gold record and just be respected by other MCs—for the craft—that would be a dream for me. And make enough money to just survive. But as far as bringing cultures together, I can’t say. I mean, for my first album, The Slim Shady LP, there was a lot of me just poking fun at myself and others. On that album, I just let myself go. There was a lot of self-deprecation on that album, but that came from battling, from thinking, What is this guy going to say about me?; but before he says it, let me say it about myself. I brought that to the first album. And there was that underdog mentality, coming from the bottom and wanting to say something from my perspective. At the same time, certain songs had aggression to them, a feeling of I’m pissed off at the world, I feel the world has sh*t on me, so I’m gonna sh*t on it back. There was a bit of everything in the songs back then. But when I thought that everything was really coming together was when I started doing shows and seeing black people, white people, just people of all races in a f-ing sea of people. But also, around the time that I made “White America,” I was like, now I’m in Middle America making a stink.
STOUTE: And you knew that rap had never gotten a chance before to penetrate that deep?
EMINEM: To an extent. If you look back, I want to say that Run-DMC really crossed those borders, too, with records like “Walk This Way.” The Fat Boys did early on, too. My thing, more so when I saw this happening, was realizing that what I was saying on my records was no different from any other underground MC. Man, listen, I’ve heard it all. I’ve heard so many f-ing crazy lines from my battling days and people saying such outlandish sh*t, it felt like now that I’ve reached this audience, now people are making a stink about it. But it wasn’t that big of a deal when I was just an underground MC. These were just things that you said—and you really didn’t think about it, you just thought, Oh, that’s a cool line, that’s crazy. Now people are making a fuss about it because it’s on a different scale. Now I’ve touched a nerve.
STOUTE: What touched a nerve with you? What was the biggest creative risk you’ve ever taken?
EMINEM: Performing with Elton John at the Grammys.
STOUTE: The duet on “Stan”?
EMINEM: Yeah, that was probably the biggest risk. For that time, 2001/2002.
STOUTE: You were putting everything on the line, everything you’d built.
EMINEM: And him as well. He was taking a risk, too. You’ve got what people perceived as this homophobic rapper. And then you’ve got his audience and his fans and supporters and how they could have reacted—and some of mine could have been like “Yo, you’re gonna go on the stage with this openly gay guy?” Now it wouldn’t seem as crazy. But if you go back nine or ten years, it was.
STOUTE: Now that you mention it, hip-hop wasn’t all inclusive culturally. I’m not sure that it embraced homosexuality. Maybe hop-hop culture is more open-minded now, but it wasn’t ten years ago. But maybe that’s because you took the risk to open up the conversation because everyone seemed to be more relaxed after the duet. I think you’ve been changing the mind of America from the start of your career. And on that note, I wonder what advice you would give to marketers today, going forward, in the way that they ought to be speaking to youth culture and maybe what they should be watching for as to where culture is going?
EMINEM: Well, let me start by saying, I’m not really big on business politics and saying the right things to corporate America. Some of the hip-hop influence in commercials is cool, especially when you sit back and you think how big rap has become—to the point that it’s crazy how big it really is. But some of the content in commercials is corny. I watch SportsCenter and the NFL channel pretty much all day. And it sometimes irks me a little to see commercials that sound like they’re written by old guys trying to be hip. But that’s also the time that you can look back and appreciate how big rap has become. Some of the guys who are running the show and making the commercials probably don’t even listen to rap because it’s not their choice of music, but they’ve probably heard so many f-ing rap songs indirectly that they don’t even realize how much it affects them.
STOUTE: Or how strong the influence is. But trying to sprinkle Ebonics in there or rap expressions isn’t real.
EMINEM: It’s not real, it’s not authentic. It’s culture swiping—taking from this and you don’t know anything about it. Some of the marketing now is real and authentic, but I think the choices matter more—who you get to do the spot, what the spot is. You have to take it on a case-by-case basis.
STOUTE: Nuances matter now, more than ever, would you say? Anything else on this idea of tanning, of how hip-hop and artists like you helped get rid of the labels and the color lines? Anything else to add about where culture is headed next? Is there more to come for hip-hop and its influence?
EMINEM: When you just look at how big hip-hop has grown, it’s almost to the point that you think, “This is it.” But I remember back when I was getting started with Dre, even during the Marshall Mathers LP time, when I was getting to the height of everything and it was all moving so fast, I didn’t think it could get any bigger. You look how big Jay-Z is and certain other artists are—ten years ago I didn’t think it could get any bigger. Five years ago I was positive that it couldn’t get any bigger. Five years later, here we are, and it’s still getting bigger. You know, it just keeps growing. Like the f-ing Blob.
From Eminem to you, that’s the power of tanning going forward, an evolving story and a hopeful one—of an economy and a cross-cultural, polyethnic world that keeps on growing like the f-ing Blob. I thanked him on behalf of the fans whose lives he has changed, and as the true artist, much more humble than you might have known or guessed, he thanked me and said, “That’s dope.”
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
First, I’d like to thank Sophia—my beautiful daughter, the love of my life—for always inspiring Daddy to push
further so you can be proud of him and all that he’s accomplished. Every day I would wake up to write this book, and rewrite it again and again, in order to create the best legacy I could for our family to share forever. I’m grateful that I could put my heart into this book and onto these pages for you to have as a part of your life. I love you and I promise, no more excuses about how busy I am writing a book. I am so blessed to be your daddy.
Thank you to the dedicated team at Gotham Books for believing that I have a great story to tell. William Shinker, thank you for taking this leap of faith. Lauren Marino, thank you for your vision and guidance as our editor.
Mim Eichler Rivas, thank you for your patience and dedication in helping me shape my thoughts and put them to paper. Your understanding of who I am and my journey is truly why this book is a reality. Graydon Carter, throughout the years we’d see each other and you always extended yourself to me. You were always curious, and that curiosity soon developed into a friendship. The fact that twelve years later you would come forward and write the introduction to my book is just a testament to the growth and maturity of our relationship. Thank you to my agents at WME, Eric Lupfer and Jennifer Rudolph Walsh, for helping us cross the finish line in time, and to Keith Estabrook and your team for your keen insights on how to help the world understand tanning. Hanna Kim, thank you. You have endlessly been there, supporting every harebrained idea of mine. You have been the backbone of my organizations from the day you started.
Thank you to the handful of extraordinary individuals who have offered their ears, instincts, love, and friendship to me over the course of the past three years. Jay-Z, you’ve been a friend since our early days in the record business and never wavered despite the fact that I’m a little rough around the edges. You were there for me. You understood me and you watched me venture into the advertising business. You were one of the few people who believed in me early on and trusted me to work with you and the brand you were building as an artist. Fifteen years later you are still there for me, inspiring me with your work and providing love and support. This book pays tribute to all of the discussions we’ve had and the insights we’ve shared with each other—it captures all of that. This book is for the culture, let’s keep pushing forward.
Jimmy Iovine—my mentor—the first person to show me patience, a teacher who found the time to explain the realities that exist in the world today. You’ve taught me so much. You took me through those critical years of twenty-eight, twenty-nine, thirty . . . guided me through all of the hurdles and pitfalls that appear when you think you already know it all. You’ve helped me become the man that I am today. With everything I do and accomplish in this lifetime, know that you have played an integral role in shaping that man. Thank you.
The Fark—Andrew Farkas—from the day we met in Sag Harbor, we’ve just been best friends. You’ve always been so understanding and a friend who taught me which obstacles to watch out for as I moved forward in life. Your advice has been very kind, very honest, and much appreciated. I know how much you want me to win. You and your beautiful family—Sandi, George, Arielle, and Nicole—have supported me through thick and thin. With this book, I know how proud you are that on the list of accomplishments we can now add “author.” . . .
Will Smith, you had insight into the concept of tanning before anybody else did. You were on it and understood it so early on that people misunderstood your path. Your respect for your art and the innumerable things that you’ve selflessly done to help move our culture forward weren’t acknowledged when they should have been. I’ve learned so much from watching you handle and work through those issues to become the most important actor and entrepreneur of our time and generation. Your work ethic and the path that you laid out before us is one of the guiding lights I have used throughout my career. I am thankful for your friendship and I will continue to keep learning from your journey.
Samuel Barnes, thank you for your friendship, your trust, and for believing in me to help manage your music career. All of the hits and time we worked together will never be forgotten. These memories are a key part of what inspired me to write this book. I remember always telling you that if we don’t have another hit on the charts once a month, something is wrong. And you delivered every single time. Those are the moments I miss the most—the two of us, in the studio late at night, making hit records. We were trying to make the industry take notice that we were doing something different, and together as a team, we were one of the best in music production. You’ve always been such a great friend to me, and you are a very big part of all that’s transpired in my life to get me to where I am today.
To my friends who I have relied on to critique various drafts of this manuscript as we went through the dizzying stages of development, thank you. As a result of your input, The Tanning of America is exactly what I envisioned it would be. SLS, thanks for being there for me when I needed it the most, when gathering my thoughts to write this book needed support and clarity. Ms. Lauren Branche, thanks for keeping me focused and not letting the noise interfere with what matters most.
To the great men and women that I’ve interviewed during the writing of The Tanning of America, thank you for your brilliance, personal anecdotes, and examples that helped enrich my narrative, and thank you for indulging my free-ranging curiosity: Russell Simmons, LL Cool J, Tommy Hilfiger, John Dempsey, Van Toffler, Ralph McDaniels, Hype Williams, Andre Harrell, Geoff Mayfield, Mitch Modell, Paul Fireman, Kim Brink, and Mike Bentley. Thank you also to those who took my phone calls just to answer a pressing question in the middle of your busy day: Lyor Cohen, Steve Berman, Darryl Cobbin, Kanye West, Sean Combs, Daymond John, and Adam Silver. Special thanks go to Fab Five Freddy for shedding light on so many turns in the tanning journey. We all owe you a debt of gratitude.
Over the years, several people I’ve quoted or noted in the text have been pivotal in my growth and learning with respect to my subject matter—some directly and others by inspiration and example. I’d like to express my profound (possibly belated) thanks to all of you: Tommy Mottola, Doug Morris, Bill Lamar, Pam El, Ashley Fox, Darren Orlando, Jacob Arabov, Noah Teppenberg, Don Thompson, James Lassiter, LeBron James, Maverick Carter, Larry Light, David Stern, Larry Bird, Allen Iverson, Rick Rubin, Cyndi Lauper, Beyoncé Knowles, Nas, Justin Timberlake, Bono, 50 Cent, Gwen Stefani, Eminem, Paul Rosenberg, Antonio Reid, Mariah Carey, Dr. Dre, Mark Eastmond, Sunika Sanchez, Chuck D, Ice Cube, Scarface, Timbaland, Pharrell Williams, and all the other great artists and executives who have inspired me, who believed in themselves and took their talents to an art form that was newly developing. Special thanks must also go to Roger Moore—yes, James Bond. And, of course, I must once more acknowledge Sir Sidney Poitier. You embody the power of tanning and the reality that through culture, we rise together as one. Thank you.
Many current and former clients have been extraordinarily gracious in their support of this book. That list includes the marketing teams at Reebok, GM, Estée Lauder Companies, McDonald’s, Target, Hewlett-Packard, Wrigley, Tommy Hilfiger, Verizon, State Farm, Samsung, Crest, and Bing. Thank you also to the pioneers of advertising who have kept pace with tanning and been courageous enough to drop the old divisions based on color and ethnicity.
Early on, The Tanning of America was the beneficiary of Brett Pulley and Johnnie Roberts, who spearheaded research on my behalf—thank you. Thank you to the authors of Can’t Stop Won’t Stop (Jeff Chang), Decoded (Shawn Carter), and The Big Payback (Dan Charnas) for elevating the discussion about hip-hop culture to its rightful stature. Thanks to David Plouffe for The Audacity to Win and for sharing some of the iconic marketing strategies of Obama’s historic 2008 presidential campaign; Larry Light and his groundbreaking writing on brand journalism; Florida State University’s Spencer Overton for the analysis of the Florida vote in the 2000 election; and Christopher John Farley for the Time piece “Hip-Hop Nation: After 20 Years—How It’s Changed America.” While I didn’t know it at the time, I think my book was born after I read
your cover feature. I’m also grateful to the periodicals, Web sites, and blogs that cover pop culture in all respects.
There are a few different groups who truly make up my extended family. To Mary J. Blige, Madeline Nelson, and everyone at the Foundation for the Advancement of Women Now (FFAWN), I am thankful to partner with you on one of the most meaningful endeavors of my life. Mary, in such a short time I have watched the incredible unfolding of your dream to give women the means for self-empowerment and confidence whether through college scholarships, job training, or counseling. Wow! I want to also thank all of our supporters who have invested in the dream and been instrumental in giving it lift-off.
And to my other amazing partner, Lisa Price, and everyone at Carol’s Daughter, I have to acknowledge all that you do to continually expand the vision of our brand while staying true to its original values. Thank you for passionately guarding the heritage while respectfully and laboriously catering to the needs of a diversity of skins that make up the tapestry of our world.