Abridged versions of this article appeared in Doctrine and Life and the Irish News.
II - INTERNMENT
Torture and Internment, August 1971
On 9 August 1971, 342 Catholic men were interned in Northern Ireland. Patrick McNally was among 23 of my p arishioners in Armagh who were arrested. He and Brian Turley of Armagh were two of the twelve hooded men tortured in Ballykelly Barracks. I took this statement from Patrick on 18 March 1974:
Arrest
At 4.30am on the morning of 9 August 1971 the soldiers came to my house. I said, ‘Is it internment?’ One of them said, ‘Yes’. They brought me to the grounds of Saint Luke’s hospital in Armagh There was a lorry waiting there. I was the first into it, and shortly afterwards they brought in a few others, Corrigan and McGinley. Then we headed out to Gough Barracks, Armagh. Our photographs were taken there. Then three of us were taken in a helicopter, Dermot Kelly, Kerr of Navan Street, and myself.
Ballykinlar British Army Barracks
We landed in Ballykinlar Barracks and were put into a hut. Only a few of us at the start, about a dozen from all over. I was taken out and had a medical examination, very brief, just strip and on me again. He was a youngish doctor, pleasant enough. Then taken to a different hut. It was full. We were left alone for a long time. Then the army came in a few hours afterwards and started making us do the ‘exercises’, continued until that night, thumping you if you were not doing them right. All this time they were taking people out and questioning them; some would come back and some wouldn’t. But I never was questioned the whole time I was there. Then processing us and moving us to different huts. On the 9th of August we were allowed an hour’s sleep, but I couldn’t sleep. I was only wearing a tee-shirt and trousers. I was freezing. On the tenth day of August we had the exercises all day again but the number of men was getting less all the time until there were only four of us in this particular hut, Brian Turley, Gerry McKerr, Seán McKenna and myself.
Gerry McKerr asked for a mattress for each of us and we were given this and a blanket. But they kept making us carry this mattress in turn and jump over the other three lying down. In between times you had to run outside between the two huts, ten times, getting faster all the time. At the end of this you were made go to the toilet which was a hole in the ground. You had to go through lines of soldiers and police standing round, watching this and laughing. They made swipes at you, odd thumps of the baton on the arm. Then when we came in again more ‘exercises’. All were told to go in and sleep, but each time we dozed over they would waken us up again and make us run round again. That went on all night. Before we went into bed each time we had to say together, ‘Good night, Sir’ and ‘Good night, Sergeant’. Once on the tenth I asked to go to the toilet but then I didn’t go because there was no paper provided and they stood there watching you all the time.
Ballykelly British Army Barracks
On the following morning, 11 August, just about daylight, three or four soldiers and about three police to each man came bursting into our hut, and they had the hood and handcuffs. I was held by a soldier and I think it was the policeman who put on the hood. I knew I was in for some sort of treatment. All sorts of things were going through my mind. Then I was bundled into a vehicle, thrown into the back, kicked and trailed. Then into a helicopter, grabbing your hair under the hood when they walked you along. Not a word was spoken the whole time, but I would say, about an hour, or between half an hour and an hour in the helicopter. Then out of the helicopter again into another vehicle, all the time very roughly handled, odd kick, punched and trailed. Getting into the vehicle you were banged against it and then you scrambled in on your own. Brought in the vehicle for a short distance.
Against the wall
Then we had a medical examination, stripped naked, still with the hood on, a short examination. No words spoken. Then into the boiler suit, about three sizes too big for me, open down the middle. Then taken out and stood against the wall, inside a building somewhere. At this time, in the beginning, I think we were lined together because you could feel people standing beside you. After a while I began to move and became restless. That was the first contact I had with anybody; my arms were falling down; they would raise them up and bang them against the wall. You were never allowed to keep your head down, just a few minutes and then it was pulled back. The noise was there at the start but at the start it didn’t annoy me much. I was expecting it to be turned off. Only after a few hours that I began to think more about it. In the beginning it didn’t seem loud but after a while seemed the only thing that mattered, nothing seemed to matter only the noise. After a while your hands and arms were numb. I imagined I was on a round wall, kept thinking it was a massive big pillar, kept thinking there was a roundness on the wall. After, I don’t know how long, I think I fainted, was lifted up again. They got my arms and wound them round.
From I went in till the time I was taken away for the Removal Order I thought it was a few days. I was against the wall all that time except for the short interrogations. At the time the first interrogation came it just seemed an endless time against the wall. I know I had collapsed a few times. If you made any movement, if your hand crumbled, they would bang your hand against the wall, give you the odd dig in the ribs to remember you to stand right. One time I did fall I was left there for a good while but I am not sure if this was after the Removal Order or before it.
First Interrogation
Brought out for the first interrogation, I was lying on the ground. They trailed me along the ground by the collar of the overall. I know I was trailed off something, like a short stage, a few feet high or more, two of them trailing me, kicked and punched, seemed a long distance. All darkness. Brought into a room. I was sat on the floor. On the first occasion the hood wasn’t removed, but after that at the other interrogations the hood was rolled up but only up to my nose.
The first interrogation was very short. A voice just said, ‘You wanted to see me’. I never answered. The voice said again, ‘Have you anything to say?’ I answered, ‘No’. Same voice said, ‘Take him away’. I was brought back again, but more roughly this time and pushed up against the wall. And so on.
Second Interrogation
Interrogation again in similar fashion. Seemed a good number of hours to me between this and the other one. Sitting on the floor again. After about half a minute sat up on a chair. Something similar. Heard only one voice. I was being held in the chair and the voice was coming from the front of me. All darkness under the hood.
Detention Order
Back again against the wall. Seemed another long time. I fell another few times. Next taken away in a jeep. I felt other people in the jeep. I knew Brian Turley was in it. He was shouting for air; he couldn’t breathe. I was lying on top of him and somebody was lying on top of me. At one stage I saw underneath the hood – I could see black trousers and black boots of police. We were handcuffed in the jeep. My skin was caught in the handcuffs. An English voice said, ‘Look at the bastard’s hands’. I was thumped on the hand with a baton where the skin was caught. I had a scar there for a long time after it. Lot of kicks on the journey, lying in a heap on the floor, just kicking free-for-all. This was the most kickings I got.
Then into a helicopter and about half-an-hour in it. Then brought out. Taken on foot for a good distance. Held by the neck and arms. Run over tin and grass. Brought into a building, down steps, hood was taken off my head. There was somebody in front of me in a black uniform. That was the first time the hood was taken off me. The man in the black uniform was standing beside a table. He just held this paper up. I said, ‘I can’t see’. Everything was just a haze. I could only see the white paper and that was that. He didn’t say anything. I couldn’t see anybody else. Hadn’t time to see them, all so quick. The hood was put on again. The piece of paper was put into the pocket of the overalls. Then the same journey back again.
I was wondering the whole way back what was going to happen. I had hoped at this stage that
I might be going to jail. When I got back and was put against the wall again then I was really bad. Then started thinking all types of thoughts. After a few more hours of that I was thinking I would never come out of it.
More Interrogations
A few more interrogations, about twelve to fifteen hours in between. Something similar the whole time. After what seemed a few more days to me, I couldn’t stand at all. Must have been collapsing and falling all the time. One time I felt somebody lifted my leg and a sharp needle was run along my foot. I was up against the wall again after that. By this time the noise, which was there all the time, was such that it is just impossible to explain; you couldn’t have sensible thoughts. I had come out of the helicopter listening to see were we going to the same place and when I heard the noise it just knocked the heart out of you.
After one of the interrogations I was brought into this small room. No noise there. It was completely black. I took the hood off after a few minutes. The room seemed very small, about six feet by four feet. I was exhausted. I rolled the hood up, made a pillow. It was a concrete floor, freezing out. But I was totally exhausted and I slept. That was the first sleep I got. I had never been offered any sleep.
I got only half a cup of water, only once, and it seemed after days. My lips were all dried up. They tried to put bread in my mouth, couldn’t take it, just choked me. That was the first and only water I got. They had given it to me sitting on the ground after I had fallen.
SAS
One time I took the hood off when I was standing against the wall. There was light in the place but I couldn’t see well, just seemed to be a dim orange light from the roof. I saw two men both stripped to the waist.
One of them said in an English voice, ‘Do you want to see anybody?’ I answered, ‘No’. Immediately they put the hood on again. I got a few thumpings. They were wearing what seemed to be the bottom of a track suit or a gym suit. Looked to be blue trousers. As the hood was being put on again I could see the white gym shoes. I have the idea that one had tight blondish hair. They were very fit and strong looking. This incident happened after I had come back from getting the Detention Order. The soldiers in Ballykinlar had told us there was civil war and that people and children were being shot. All this was coming back to me.
After I had fallen asleep in the small room, I was told by a Northern Ireland accent to put the hood on. Then they came in. Taken out this time walking. Taken down what seemed to be a corridor, blankets hanging down, roughish hairy material. You had to move in and out between them. Then brought in for interrogation again.
Smooth Interrogator
This was the first interrogation with the hood off. Before Detention Order it was just rolled up a bit. Table there. Sat in a chair. Told not to look behind me. Hand was placed on each shoulder. The interrogator had black hair thinning a bit at the front, wearing a blue anorak, thinnish, round about thirty-five years old, spoke in educated type of accent, no Northern Ireland twang about it. He said, ‘You are in the IRA’. I said ‘No’. He talked about Republican parades. He said, ‘Do you deny you are a Republican?’ I said, ‘No’. Then sort of casual questions. This particular interrogator never cut rough in the interrogations. Just straight forward simple questions.
Rough Interrogator
Taken into another room. There was a mattress in this room. Later a blanket. After the door was closed I knew I was on my own and I could take the hood off. I took it off. I lay down on the mattress and went to sleep. The next thing I heard a banging on the door and a voice shouting, ‘Put on your hood’. I was taken by the arms and into a room. Sat in the chair again. The hood was taken off and the fella immediately grabbed me by the lapels of the boiler suit. He lifted me up roaring and shouting, ‘I don’t want any nonsense out of you. I want the truth. You are going to tell me everything’. Then he sat down again. Then he started asking questions. ‘We know you are in the IRA, what is your rank?’ Just general questions but pretty rough all the time. Shouting and slapping the table, pushing you about and things like that. I had about three separate interrogations with him. This man had a black heavy curly beard, black hair, combed straight forward, medium length, well-built, about just over thirty, maybe thirty-three. Always rough, losing his head, roaring and shouting.
Round about this time too I was sitting in the mattress room, might have been some time after I came out of the room where I got the first sleep. They came in and pulled the hood up to my nose and gave me some stew. I had to eat it with my fingers.
Soft Interrogator
The period between these interrogations was not very long. I was brought into a different interrogator, in his fifties, going grey-haired, very big, heavy, about six foot two or three. He acted real nice, put his arm around me. Sat down. He talked about politics – where did I get my views from? Did I read any books? Did you ever join the IRA? and so on. He wouldn’t ask the same question twice. If you said ‘No’ to anything he would make you feel he believed you. He talked about Germany, Japan, the Free State, how well they were doing since the war. I was brought into him two or three times for interrogation. One time there was a plate of beans on the table. He said, ‘You can eat them’. I didn’t. I was very sick at this stage.
I had never been to the toilet since I was put against the wall. When I was in the mattress room I was very nervous and tense at this stage and asked out to the toilet, anything to get out of the room; even looking forward to the interrogation.
On the last interrogation, the big tall grey-haired man came in and shouted, ‘Face the back wall’. He came in and spoke to me, ‘Come on, get your hood on, you are coming with me’. I went into the room again. The hood was taken off. This was the last interrogation. The big grey-haired fella interrogated me. He said, ‘Anything you want to eat at all, you can have’. I got a cup of tea, beans and sausages, bread. Then he put the hood on again. He himself took me to the washroom. I was filthy. He told me to get washed. Got sort of half washed. Then he told me I was for the Crumlin Road. I didn’t really believe him at the time. I thought then this was a bluff. But I knew there was something on. Next he came in again. He had a sheet. He asked me to sign it. I told him I couldn’t see. I got it and tried to read it. He got annoyed. I waited until I could see. Then I could make out ‘boots and socks’, so I signed it. He took me to this room and I was photographed in it. I had a sort of medical check before I went into the room, could feel hands going over me, the hood was still on. I was photographed along with this interrogator. I had no clothes on. Then photographed me on my own, back and front. Then brought back to the room.
Crumlin Road Jail
Then next time brought out treated gently, sort of guiding you instead of pushing you into the vehicle, your foot was lifted up and set into it. From that into the helicopter. The guard kept touching me reassuringly, patting me. Still hooded. Landed. Put into another Land Rover. The hood was taken off in the Land Rover. I was sitting among six or seven police, just outside the Crumlin Road Jail, Belfast. I said to one of them, ‘What day is it today?’ He said, ‘Mind your own business’. I was brought into the Crumlin through a hole in the wall. As soon as I got out of the Land Rover I could see the jail.
During the time I was away sometimes I would be stubborn with them. Other times you would have done anything. Other times I didn’t really believe it was me. The whole time I was against the wall I don’t think I stopped praying. I may have thought out loud but all the time I was praying. One time I thought a whole lot of children had been shot in Drumbreda but I don’t know whether I was told that by one of the interrogators or not.
Letter to Jim Fields, Armagh, 1972
Dear Jim,
You have now been imprisoned without trial for 14 months. During that time you suffered heavy interrogation in a military barracks, Armagh RUC station, and Portadown RUC station. You endured the rigours of the condemned prison ship, Maidstone. You have been treated like an animal in a cage in Long Kesh prison camp, a place precisely planned to break it
s prisoners by prolonged degradation. In Long Kesh you were beaten and injured by the British army on 25 October 1971, and on another occasion when being transferred from one compound to another.
This imprisonment, so terrible because of its injustice and its indefinite length, must weigh heavily on you, a man of nearly 50 years, considering too that you need medical care. As a peacemaker in the Armagh community you are appalled by the viciousness of the procedures employed to degrade men in Long Kesh. Not only the physical degradation causes you to suffer, but also the calumnies about internees of leading ministers of the British crown. Like the thousand or so Catholics who were arrested and detained, your basic liberty was taken from you. You had no just public trial and no proper means of defence – no warrant, no charge, no trial. Why are you being held without trial in Long Kesh prison camp? Was it because you were chairman of the National Graves Association? Would Mr Whitelaw, who reserves to himself the right to inspect each file, declare publicly or show you privately why you are being held away from your wife and family? Like yourself your wife is not in good health; deprived of her husband she has little to live on; she is on her own; she is one of ‘Mr Whitelaw’s widows’. Your son, Tony, on 3 October 1972 was sentenced to 4 years imprisonment after being found to have 6 rounds of ammunition. The people of Armagh have noted that in the same week a UVF man got the same sentence as your son for being in possession of 3 rifles and 1,163 rounds of ammunition, under suspicious circumstances. Why have you not been allowed to visit your son in Crumlin Road Jail? Why has your request been turned down so often? Why was no reason for the refusal given to you or to the welfare officer? Such permission has been granted to others.
State Violence Page 5