Ninth interrogation
On Sunday after tea a similar thing happened, similarly taken for interrogation for a similar period of four hours and again it was the exact same thing happened. I was interviewed until approximately 3 o’clock on Monday morning 24 January 1977 and finally put back in my cell. But at no stage during these interviews on Sunday had there been trace or any sign of violence being used on me.
Tenth interrogation
On Monday morning 24 January 1977 I had a shorter than usual interrogation from the two people who had interviewed me on Friday morning 21 January 1977 from 10 o’clock. They were again using the similar approach. Some of their ideas they had used before, except that this time they didn’t attempt to use any violence on me but went through the same type of questioning again.
The men of violence threaten assassination
The next two that I had were the two main CID men who had used the most serious abuse against me on the first night that I was held in custody on that Thursday night early Friday morning, i.e., the first two of four men who saw me after 10pm of 20 January 1977. At this time they did not attempt to abuse me. They were there to give me good advice, and the advice was that I should take a short stretch in jail now or, if I was going to be now released, which they doubted very much, and said that in fact they were sure I wasn’t but, if by any chance I was, that the UVF would only be too delighted to murder me. That was very strange. This reminds me of the first interview I had with them, when they were kicking me around the place, that they said that they personally would make sure that I would be assassinated, and they said that they personally would be the boys who would assassinate me themselves.
This was contrary to the two people I had on Friday morning first from 10 o’clock. Their threat of assassination was that one of them, yes, would personally do it, that is if the UVF didn’t do it first. He would be very surprised if I wasn’t assassinated by the UVF. In the event of them not being able to do it in two or three weeks that he would guarantee that it would be done by themselves within six months. The two interviewers that kept me from 11 o’clock on Saturday night until 5 o’clock on Sunday morning at numerous times said that the UVF would assassinate me because they had no doubt that I was the godfather. However, they felt that in no way were the UVF going to get me because they had cracked the Miami Showband murderers and they would have no bother cracking me too.
Eleventh interrogation – a light-hearted interview
I was put back in my cell for my lunch and after lunch at about roughly 3 o’clock I was taken from my cell again. This time I was interviewed by two CID men whom I know. One was Detective ... from ... and the other was a Detective ... from ... Both these men took the attitude that either I was as guilty and as black in guilt as the floor or as white in innocence as the ceiling. It was a light-hearted interview really because I believe that for the first time I met people I knew and who knew me. I wasn’t afraid to talk freely to these men. There were no strong accusations made against me and I sincerely believe that they believed that I was innocent.
Twelfth interrogation
I was put back for tea and after tea I then met another member of the CID, this time a new face for the first time, [a] small man. He again decided to go back down through the file asking me the same questions as I had been asked by numerous other CID men before. Again I told him I was innocent. He said I was just telling him the same story as I told the rest, that it was about time now that I told the truth. He was getting quite nasty about the whole thing. He asked me did I think that a good hammering at this stage might help me to tell the truth.
Release
This interview was interrupted by Chief Inspector ... from ... whom I was delighted to see. He asked the other CID man to leave the room. Another gentleman came into the room whom I now know to be Chief Superintendent ... of CID. Mr ... had been one of the men who had come into the room at one of the previous interviews of which I have told you and produced the brief case and wrote out the two made-up statements about the two murders that I refused to sign. Mr ... told me that I was being released and that I had the option of going home with ... or having my wife drive to Belfast to collect me as she had wished. I said that my wife was in no fit state to drive to Belfast and that I would be only too pleased to drive back to Enniskillen with ...
Before a doctor
I was then brought back to my cell which incidentally now was G9 because the lock on G8 had failed two days previous. There I took the dirty sheets off the bed and put them into a pillow case. I was given a plastic bag to put my dirty clothes and belongings into. I was then brought before a doctor for a final medical examination. The doctor asked me did I want a full medical examination and I said ‘No’. He filled in the recognised medical form and stated I had received no injuries since Dr ...’s examination, nor was I willing to complain nor had I received nor complained about any injuries received from the previous medical examination by my own doctor. I signed the form stating to that effect, that is, that I had received no injuries since the time I had been examined by Dr ...
Complaint form
I was then taken to the Police Office and there the police sergeant gave me back my belongings that were taken from me the first day I arrived – my watch, my medal and chain, my ring, my pound note and my pair of laces. Also given back to me was a newspaper, two books, a packet of cigarettes, and some bars of chocolate which had been sent into me and which were not allowed to be given to me. I was then given a form to sign by the police sergeant which was stating – had I received any ill-treatment while I was in custody. I signed that part of the form which said that I had received ill-treatment. At the bottom of the form was a section which said ‘other information’. I wrote that I had received injuries in accordance with the medical report already submitted by Dr ... I was given back all my belongings.
To Enniskillen
Chief Inspector ... drove me to Enniskillen. On the way he spoke about numerous political things that had happened in the past, like the Civil Rights Campaign, the People’s Democracy affairs, the Concern newspaper which used to name him specifically and how he used to enjoy reading about himself, the present political state of Northern Ireland, and in no way did he at any time try to involve himself in any fringe interrogation about any offences back in town that I had been interrogated on during my stay there at Castlereagh. We arrived home at approximately 10.45pm to the delight of everybody.
Statement made by me
This statement has been made by me Bernard O’Connor of ... Enniskillen, County Fermanagh, on the 28th day of January 1977, at the offices of my solicitors, Messrs ... & ...
I am 36 years of age this summer. I was born on the 1st June 1942. I have a wife and her name is Mary Patricia O’Connor, formerly Crosby. I have seven children, namely Philip, Nuala, Moira, Sinéad, Brian, Áine, Nollaig. I was married on the 28th day of December 1965 at Holy Rosary Church, Belfast. I am at present employed as a school teacher in ... , Enniskillen. I commenced employment there on the 1st September 1966. I have a post of responsibility for music in the school for the past three years. I am a scout master with St Michael’s unit of the Catholic Boy Scouts of Ireland. I was a founder member of that organisation in Enniskillen in 1961 and I have been a scout master up until 1969. I am now the unit leader of that unit in Enniskillen.
At nine years of age in the year 1951 I was convicted of being involved in the theft of a small quantity of steeples from Acheson’s mill in the Brook. I was involved also and convicted of obstructing the police in the course of their duty at a sit-down in the Civil Rights parade in Enniskillen in 1972. Other than that I have no other criminal convictions whatever of any kind nor have I had any other involvement with the RUC.
Supplement: Statement by Bernard O’Connor, 16 June 1977, on RUC interview based on the Catholic religion.
This interview lasted from 11pm on Saturday 22 January to 5am on Sunday 23 January. Practically two-thirds of this interview was based on th
e Catholic religion. In previous interviews many of the interrogators would say abusive things about my Catholic religion, but during this particular interview there was a prolonged attack on the Catholic Church. The fact that I teach in a Catholic school and also give religious instruction to the pupils, and the fact that I am Diocesan Commissioner for training scout leaders in the diocese of Clogher for the Catholic Boy Scouts of Ireland made the two interrogators very bitter towards me.
The questions were asked in quick succession, giving little time to think of an answer. The following are an example of the kind of questions that they asked:
Do you believe that the majority of priests have sex lives?
Do you know that nuns and priests have sex together?
Do you know that nuns run orphanages to cater for their own babies?
Do you believe that when we (the interrogators) pulled into a lay-by two nights ago there was a priest in a car having sex with a teenage girl?
Would that priest be able to forgive sin in confession?
If you were lying on the path, would that priest be able to anoint you?
Do you believe that priests should marry?
Do you use contraceptives?
Do you think the Catholic Church has the right to forbid the use of contraceptives?
The Pope forbids the use of contraceptives so that there will be more Catholics in the world than any other religion.
Would you agree that over half of the Catholic parents in the country use the pill?
Wouldn’t the Pope be able to solve the hunger problem in the world if he sold the Vatican and all the valuable properties that the Church owns?
Do you believe in the infallibility of the Pope?
What do you think of the Pope kicking out saints? Do you believe in St Christopher?
Why do I pray to the Virgin Mary?
Why pray to the saints, why not pray directly to the boss?
This kind of questioning went on for hours. When I tried to defend the teachings of the Church, one of the interrogators would stop me by saying the following, ‘Such a stupid answer for a fucking intelligent school teacher’.
They went on to give me the details of their own sex lives and the freedom they enjoy with the pill, etc. Everything they said about the Catholic Church, the Pope and the teachings of the Church was most insulting. They used the most foul language throughout the interview.
Bernard O’Connor, Enniskillen, 18 June 1977
Ill-Treatment of Women in Castlereagh: Geraldine Crane, 1977
Women were also ill-treated in Castlereagh Interrogation Centre. On 7 November 1977, eight women from the Short Strand area of Belfast were arrested by the RUC under emergency legislation and held in Castlereagh for seventy-two hours. Mgr Denis Faul and I published in The Castlereagh File statements from the Association for Legal Justice on the interrogation of these women.
The Short Strand is a Catholic enclave in east Belfast. In the 1970s and 1970s it was reduced from a population of 8,000 to 2,600, a result of the war in the north and unenlightened redevelopment. It is a district noted for its community spirit and kindly hospitality. Some fifty residents have been killed there in the recent troubles. In December 1997 there were 56 men and women from this little district in prison for political offences.
The first part of the following statement was taken by Elizabeth F. Murray and the second part by me.
Statement of Mrs Geraldine Crane. Aged 21 years. Married with a child of two and a half years.
On Monday 7 November 1977 at 6.30am I was rapped up. When I got to the door there were four RUC men accompanied by the army and two women officers in plain clothes. They said there going to search. I asked if they had search warrants. They said ‘Yes’. Two RUC men went upstairs. One went into the scullery and the other one stayed in the kitchen along with the two women officers. I stayed downstairs. They all came down again. They didn’t search much when they came down again, only the electric box.
I said I had the baby upstairs. He told me I’d have to leave him with somebody. I didn’t want to leave him and I went up to get him. A woman officer came up as well. The baby was in his pyjamas. I got the bottoms off and struggled to get his underpants and trousers, etc. They then said, ‘We’ll have to go on’. So we had to go with his pyjamas top on. They lifted some of his clothing with him and hustled us outside.
I was put in a jeep with the child. I was taken to Castlereagh. There I was taken to a kitchen in it and left with two women police in plain clothes. A uniformed policewoman came in. She told them to go on, she would stay. A plain clothes man came in, put his hands out and said, ‘Give me the baby’. He said he’d contacted the authorities and they would take the baby to a home. I started crying, saying I wasn’t giving him to any policeman or any welfare. They said, ‘He’s not staying here’. So this RUC man came in. He asked where my husband was and said they’d get in touch with him. I shouted, ‘You know where my husband is’. He laughed and said, ‘Why, where is he?’ I was still crying. I told him he was in jail. He then asked if I was going to hand Ciarán over. I said, ‘No. You can send for his granny’. So they went out to get her and they brought her in to me in Castlereagh. I gave her the baby.
I was taken to a cell. I had to leave my coat and shoes outside the cell door. A man came in to take my finger prints. I was brought down to a room to have them taken. Back to the cell. I couldn’t breathe in this cell because the fan was blowing out hot air and it was making a terrible noise as well. I kept rapping the door and asking for water and, as well, I had diarrhoea, so I needed to get to the toilet. I called, ‘Miss, get me the doctor, get me Dr ...’ The police told me afterwards he was too busy. Then I was photographed twice. I was then taken to the interrogation room.
First interrogation
There were two male interviewers and a policewoman. They said I would know what I was in there for. I said I didn’t. He said did I know what Section 10 was. I said ‘No’. He said, ‘you know under this you are suspected of being a terrorist and being a member of Cumann na mBan’. I said that I was never a member of any organisation. They all started laughing. So they said, what did I know about the fire-bombs. I said that I didn’t know anything. They banged the table. I was scared and I couldn’t stop shaking. They told me they heard I was sick. I told them I never had good health. They said, how could I expect good health with the people I had bombed and killed. I said that I never hurt anyone in my life. I kept on denying it. I was taken back to the cell. A lunch was brought in. I never ate it. I was left there about an hour.
Second interrogation
This time I had two different interrogators and a different policewoman: I planted the fire-bombs (they didn’t say where), I ran around with republicans, I was at republican funerals in uniform. I said that the only funeral I was at was that of two friends and I wasn’t in uniform and the only uniform I wore was my school uniform. They said they had lots of photos of me and one was going to bring them down. They kept on insisting they had photos. I knew they had none. Then they said that my husband was awful good, that he even told them he was in the IRA and that I should be like him and tell them everything and get it all off my chest; I would feel better for it. I said that I had nothing to tell; I didn’t know any IRA men, about Cumann na mBan, about fire-bombs. Back to the cell again.
Third interrogation
This time again two different interviewers. One an older man, fat and long hair combed back. I’ve seen him at Mountpottinger. The other was a ... There was a policewoman in plain clothes. She had permed hair. She started off asking was I going to co-operate. I said that I told them all I could, I’d told the truth, I wasn’t in anything. I said, ‘I know nothing of fire-bombs’. He asked, ‘Can you fucking read, do you know what that says?’ It was stamped in red. It said, ‘Geraldine Crane, Intelligence Brief’. I said, ‘Yes’. ‘Well, what the fuck do you think that means?’ I said, ‘I don’t know’. ‘Do you think we get paid for nothing?’ I said, ‘No, mister’.
He said, ‘We’ve got men watching you every minute of the day. We’re not only talking about recent fire-bombs but things that go back years.’ I told him that I’d nothing to fear because I was in nothing.
The ginger-haired one, when he interrupted, kept referring to Ciarán as a cub. The policewoman then said, ‘Do you know the song “Nobody’s child”? Well, that’s what he will be singing one day’. She kept on referring to Ciarán, saying I wasn’t crying, so I wasn’t worried about him.
The older man said, ‘You sicken me, sitting there shaking. Stand up against the wall’. Where I was standing I was close to, in fact right beside, the policewoman seated on the edge of the table. He stood beside me. The other one at my side. The ginger-haired one stood facing me. The one beside me struck the wall and shouted, ‘Aren’t you fucking in it?’ I said, ‘No’. She said, ‘He said to stand up, not lean against it’ and she pushed me. I had my hands in pockets and she said, ‘Keep them by your side’. I put my hands down. He kept banging and shouting, just missing me every time. When I moved she would shove me back. He shouted at me then for staring at the brick wall rather than at your man’s face. I said that it was ignorant to stare. He banged the wall. He said, ‘Well, I’m staring at him and talking to you and he doesn’t think I’m ignorant’. Your man laughed and said, ‘You’re my friend and I don’t mind you staring, and I’ll be your friend, Geraldine, if you tell us all.’ Back to the cell.
State Violence Page 10