by Dave Alfvin
Alfvin: You’ve had several years to reflect on your life and the many things that have happened.
Teri: Yeah, and I talk about this when I do my talks in colleges. Number one, I didn’t want to take my time, and I didn’t think through it enough. I was thirty years old, I was in a hurry to have a family, to have kids—I was previously in a relationship with somebody who didn’t want kids, so I felt like I was getting old and needed to hurry up, I had to get somebody, get my family, get kids, get going. He (David Larsen) made himself out to be, you know, “Oh yeah, I want to get married and have kids and have you take care of them, stay home,” so I was like, sounds good to me. I did not think it through; I did not get to know him well enough first…With a normal person, you don’t think someone’s going to turn out like that; you just trust them to be normal.
Alfvin: You don’t think there’s something lurking there.
Teri: Yes, exactly, exactly. And even my parents…especially my mom said, “Don’t marry him,” or she would say, “Something wasn’t right about him.”
Teri: I was thinking, “Oh, my parents don’t know anything.”
Alfvin: They weren’t overjoyed at all….
Teri: Oh no…. actually, they wouldn’t go to our rehearsal dinner—they didn’t want any part of anything. Of course, it’s the typical “My mom and dad are dumb; they don’t understand.” I couldn’t see what they could see…what was so plain to them.
Yeo: Yes, the story line almost sounds stereotypical, yet this didn’t exactly turn out too well…
Teri: That’s for sure! And in the back of my mind, I’m thinking: “What’s the worst that could happen? If it really doesn’t work out, we’ll have to split up.” I mean, what’s the worst that can happen, right? Again, no one at this table would ever think something like this would ever happen.
Alfvin: Let’s move on to a lighter subject. Teri, how are the orthotics working out? (Orthotics are foot supports that fit inside a person’s shoes.)
Teri: (laughing) What I did, and I don’t use them…what they gave me… it looks like a piece of hard foam. It’s blue and looks like a sandal, and then your foot hits up against it…and it doesn’t feel good…at all! It feels like you’re wearing shoes that are too small.
Alfvin: It rubs where your foot ends? Ohhh, that sounds awful!
Teri: Oh yeah, so then the doctor said, “Well, we’ll just, you know…buy a bigger shoe. So I bought a bigger shoe, and it helped a little bit, but not enough…now, I don’t even wear them.
Alfvin: It just looks like a super-thin layer of plastic.
Teri: Right, but it doesn’t work that well…I just don’t wear them. Maybe I should, but I don’t. I get around all right. (laughs). I’ve met a few people—I met an old man—this guy was eighty-something, and he recognized who I was and he say, “Oh, you know, I lost one of my toes in a farming accident—just take some nylons and roll them up in my shoe—just put them in there and I’m good to go. (more laughter)
Alfvin: Those sound like they’d feel more natural!
Yeo: Something I wanted to ask you was about the wedding itself—how did that go?
Teri: Oh brother! That was a whole big deal…the day of the wedding, my dad, somewhere near the back of the church getting ready to go down the aisle… one of (David’s) friends, either his best man or one of the groomsmen, was in the back and drinking whiskey and says to my dad, “Want some? You’re gonna need it.” (laughs) “Are you sure you want to do this?” my dad says to me. And my dad—I remember my dad saying, “We can turn around and leave right now if you want.” I remember him saying that…I remember actually thinking, You know what? Well… But then you look and see there are all these people in the church, and you feel guilty because everybody’s there…
Alfvin: Can you expand on your attempts at marriage counseling when you were with David?
Teri: (laughs) Yeah, well, you know how it went! The counselor would ask David, “So what do you think about Teri working?” and David says with a sneer, “Oh no, she’s not going to work.” And I said, “Well, until I have kids, I’d like to keep working.” I had a good job; I was a loan officer; I could really contribute family income. And I will never, ever forget what he said. When I said, “I can really contribute to the marriage and the kids, and I can make good money by being a loan officer.” David reply was, “Oh, that’s cute. That’s cute. That’s cute, Teri.”
Alfvin: He should’ve been a clerk in a customer complaint department.
Yeo: He should’ve been a greeter at Walmart.
(everyone laughs)
Alfvin: It’s such an archaic way of thinking.
Teri: I know.
Yeo: Okay, so back to the wedding. You were just talking about how…your final opportunity to back down?
Teri: Yep. I actually entertained the idea…and you know what, I think it was the guilt of everybody…
Yeo: One gigantic, oversized guilt trip?
Teri: Exactly…everybody’s here, everybody’s brought gifts, they bought their dresses…You’re right, everybody’s there, staring at me…
Yeo: Everyone’s expecting you to go through with this.
Teri: Right, you feel like you have to at this point.
Yeo: And looking back, I mean, really think about this—would you still have gone down the aisle with David…
Teri: No! Even if you’re walking down the aisle, even if you’re in front of the altar, and you have to say, “No, I can’t do this,” and run away, that’s okay—there’ll be a lot of people going, “Yes! She actually did it.” (laughs)
Yeo: So you would’ve, then?
Teri: Yes, definitely. If it was me now, I would have bolted for sure.
Yeo: Well, we can’t change the past, but we can learn from it. Anyway, in Hawaii, did you do any other activities with David?
Teri: Yeah, we took these bicycles up to some mountain or something to see some sunrise thing, and it was…it was really scary, on the way down there were no guardrails, so you bike up and you sit and you watch the sunrise, which was pretty cool. But then you bike down, and it’s kind of scary since there are no guardrails and all, and I remember almost falling off the edge. That was pretty funny, and I was like (laughs and mimics a terrified expression). It was kind of cool to be up there, because it’s really freezing cold…because you’re up so high and wearing all these layers, and on the way down…
Alfvin: There’s actually snow-capped mountains there.
Teri: Yeah, they’re really cool.
Alfvin: What were your dinners like?
Teri: Um…
Alfvin: You know, dinner together.
Teri: We would go out and…you know, like I said, he was…I think he was just under stress—I don’t know what the deal was—but again, you go out and you order a steak and then the potato is like five dollars extra…
Yeo: And he probably threw a fit about that, seeing how tight he was with money.
Teri: Yeah, but first thing he would be like: “Money’s no object,” you know, but when you actually got down to it, it was kind of funny because that’s how he always acted like “Money’s no object right now; I have money.”
Teri: I don’t know if I told you, but my attorney told me (David’s) been moved to Boscobel; it’s like a super maximum security prison. Now again, his attorney and him and his dad would have you believing it's…you know, he’s a wonderful guy and it’s me who’s making this up…I haven’t even talked to him in eight years, and he’s getting himself punished in prison and they transferred him to a supermax—it has nothing to do with me, I’m not even there!
Alfvin: He’s got true sociopathic thoughts—he feels sorry for nothing.
Yeo: He’s quite a character.
Teri: He’s always extremely judgmental about other people. Extremely.
Teri: You know, I look at that now and I should’ve said—
Alfvin: Red flag!
Teri: See ya! I mean, I might have been thinking, He wouldn’t do that
to me, and I was just at a place where I was afraid that I was getting older and I wasn’t going to have my family that I always wanted, and everybody’s going to have faults, but I’ll just deal with his faults that he has.
Alfvin: I’ve known my share of narcissists in my time, and they all share the same follies that “the world is stupid, except them.”
Teri: Right.
Alfvin: Not dumb, just stupid. Like, ignorant. They don’t care what you tell them—it really is consistent with that type of personality—no matter who they look at, they’re inferior to them.
Teri: It’s funny, I should give you…I should get my hands on a copy. When he was being sentenced in Racine court, there’s a letter he wrote to the judge…he was trying to use his insanity plea and all that. He actually wrote a letter to the judge basically saying, “I’ve been held against my will—you owe me like…whatever it was…like, so much money a day for holding me against my will...” (all laugh)
Teri: “This is….blah blah blah…and you’d better set me free and pay me this money immediately,” and this judge, I remember, the judge was like: “Maybe we should revisit that insanity plea.” It was just so…(whistles)…I mean, wow, you know? Is this a joke?
Alfvin: It is amazing, though, that a person who’s reasonably smart like that can think that they can…they think their personality is so huge…
Teri: So above everybody else.
Alfvin: …that, “Oh, David Larsen!”
Teri: Right. Like they’ll bow before you. When I was married to him too, I remember he would like, he would snap at me, go “F--- you!” and at the end, I would go “F--- you!” and then he’d hit me and be like “How dare you talk to me like that!” (pantomimes extreme disbelief) You just did it to me! (laughs) That’s okay!
Alfvin: The former governor of Illinois who just went to prison…Blagojevich…he wanted a retrial. Why? You want to know why? Because “nobody would listen to me.” (all laugh)
Teri: Exactly. You should see…some of these I should also give you, just so you understand who he is, all of these appeals, okay? He’s appealed everything, okay, in every court…family court—you should read these appeals. It’s like…you read it, and at first you’re mad, and then you just laugh, like, “What an idiot!”
Alfvin: No sane legal person’s going to read this and believe it.
Teri: No. And then he’ll leave it right there, like you’re supposed to feel sorry for him. “Well, this would be neater, but I don’t have access to a typewriter, and all I have is the inside refill of a pen, ’cause they won’t even give me a real pen.” And I’m thinking, “Why is that, Mr. Larsen? Maybe you’re dangerous? And we’re supposed to feel sorry for you because you’re in this predicament?” Yeah, we’re all crying for you.
Teri: You can make that the main reason for not leaving him was fear, because he would say, “This is what I’ll do to you.”
Yeo: So you took shelter with Pam? Where else did you go?
Teri: My sister, I spent a week with her, and then after that, when I left and moved to a “sister house,” it was called. I went to a shelter, a women’s shelter, and stayed there six weeks. And that’s when (David) was complaining to the police. “I’m reporting a missing person; my wife and kids are gone.” The police knew exactly what was going on.
Yeo: (sarcastically) “I have no idea how this happened; I was just abusing her…”
Teri: (also sarcastically) “Yes, I just woke up one morning, and my wife was gone for no reason! Poor me.” I don’t know much about his brother at all…actually, before I married Dave, his brother was even saying, “You don’t want to go out with him; he’s a jerk.” Then again, I didn’t know how much of a jerk his brother is because during the pregnancy and the divorce, him and his brother and his dad took all of his money and assets and they made this family trust out of it so I couldn’t get anything—remember moving day, when I…
Yeo: Tell me more about that.
Alfvin: Yes, tell about moving day when the marriage was over, and you were moving out.
Teri: Well, that was so damn funny! (laughs) We were there, and his mom and dad were there, because Larsen couldn’t, so they were sitting in front of the desk in his office. There was also my friend Betsy and Pam. Larsen had taken my driver’s license and my Social Security card; he had all that stuff and had it hidden, so I was going through drawers and complaining, “Where’s my driver’s license?” “He doesn’t have it,” Larsen’s dad says. I reply, “Yes, he does.” “No, he doesn’t.” “I know he does.” So that’s the way it went…just ridiculous.
You see, Larsen hid stuff up in the attic so you couldn’t find it; he had everything locked. Remember that shed we had in the backyard? Larsen had a big padlock on it. Gus, a friend of ours, says, “I’ll go get a bolt cutter,” but I say, “No, let’s just get our stuff and get out of here.”
Then we had Larsen’s dad glaring at us, something like “This Betsy is a jerk,” or something like that, and he says to her, “You must be Betsy, the one with the big mouth.” And Betsy looks right at him and calmly says, “You know, I had a boyfriend who hit me once. He’s dead now.”
Yeo: Best comeback…ever.
Teri: I was laughing, and I remember we got back in the truck but Betsy was crying. She says “I can’t believe he made me say that. I can’t believe that.”
Teri: I remember, though, we were taking some stuff out, and Larsen’s mom was sitting there like, “Oh no dear, you’re not taking this dresser!”
Yeo: What was your parents’ reaction to the news that you were getting a divorce?
Teri: Well, they were like, “It’s about time.”
Yeo: I would imagine so. “Utter relief” are the words I would choose.
Teri: Yes, that’s for sure.
Alfvin: Can we discuss “The Great Pasta Incident” again?
Teri: I was decorating the house or something like that, hanging up pictures and stuff, and Larsen came home and had a heart attack because I was hanging up pictures and I was using the wrong nails. I’m like, “No I wasn’t, I was using the picture nails.” “You’re using the wrong nails!” he screamed. I could never do anything to his house; I couldn’t change anything. I couldn’t paint; I couldn’t hang up pictures; it was his house.
Alfvin: It actually was his castle.
Teri: Definitely, it was his sole property.
Yeo: Every time I read something in this, it just becomes more unbelievable.
Teri: Yeah, and you look back and you go, “Duh, why didn’t she just leave right away,” but, you know…
Yeo: You were scared.
Teri: In the first place, at the very first I didn’t leave right away, because I felt guilty. You know, I felt like “Oh my gosh, I just got married. I can’t walk out on a marriage.”
Yeo: It’s typical.
Teri: And then he would say things like “You took vows in front of God and everyone; you’re gonna go to hell.”
Yeo: Falling back on his twisted version of the Bible.
Teri: Right.
Yeo: And Larsen considered you a piece of his property.
Teri: Oh, definitely. Did I ever tell you? He actually would tell me, “You’re bought and paid for.” Larsen believed I was put on this earth to serve his every need and follow his orders explicitly.
Alfvin: Remember when your church was involved with “Reconciled in Christ,” the program to reach out to homosexuals, and Larsen went ballistic?
Teri: Yeah. That’s when the whole ELCA came under fire. Because David believed “all gay people are going to hell.” He even dated a woman whose brother was gay and had died, and Larsen once told her, “Your brother is in hell.” That’s what he told her.
Yeo: Out of curiosity, how long is his prison sentence?
Teri: Life in prison. One long sentence from the state of Wisconsin and a life sentence from the feds.
Alfvin: The state didn’t set it at years now? It’s life?
Teri: Actually,
the state sentence was set in years; the federal sentence is for life.
Alfvin: I guess that’s why he’s in a federal prison.
Teri: No. Actually he’s in a state prison.
Alfvin: Boscobel is a state prison?
Yeo: Didn’t Larsen used to be at the Waupun prison?
Teri: Yes, and he tried to break out of the Waupun facility. That’s why he’s in Boscobel, Wisconsin’s maximum security prison. The federal prosecutor wanted him switched to a federal prison, but they didn’t because the state prison and our county sheriff have such a good watch on him—they didn’t want to move him someplace else where nobody knew who he was or whatever… they wanted to keep a very close eye on him because, you know, when was it? It was like about three or four years ago, the sheriff came to our house and said Larsen was trying to hire a hit man.
Yeo: What?
Teri: Yeah, Larsen was trying to hire a hit man from prison.
Yeo: WHAT?
Teri: This was like three years ago—that’s why he’s being watched.
Yeo: You have got to be kidding me. How would he even try to?
Teri: He tried to work within the prison. He was working with someone who was getting released, and tried to set it up in prison so it would happen when the inmate was released. If I’m not mistaken, they said that the inmate tipped it off because even among criminals they have a code of ethics.
Yeo: So even evil has standards.
Teri: And so this convict thought it wasn’t right for him to try to carry out a murder for hire.
Yeo: All I can say is, thank goodness for a code of honor amongst criminals.
The Fight for Victims’ Rights
Special thanks are extended to Tony Gibart, policy coordinator at Wisconsin’s Coalition Against Domestic Violence, located in Madison, the state’s capitol. Gibart is an attorney who lobbies the state legislature on behalf of domestic abuse victim rights, protection, and other issues. Tony graciously contributed this useful information on the function of state coalitions.