I tell Pleather that I've given it the royal try as well, but always come back to the man on the pedestal, er, the stageperhaps because my daddy was bigger than life and seemingly unreachable.
"My relationship with my mother has completely formed and determined my life," Pleather says. "I was homeschooled, so we were always together and extremely close. She taught me how to play guitar, told me what books to read. She made me stay up late to watch great movies. She exposed me to everything about life and art. I had a strange grown-upness about me. I was reading by the time I was two. When I was six, I played guitar constantly. By the time I was eight, I could hang out with my parents' friends and talk on an intellectual level. My dad always worked, provided, did the dad thing. He was a drummer in two or three bands. So almost every night, he would go off and play. When I was ten, my parents formed a punk band, so I went to all their practices. This was '81 and still pretty groundbreaking. My mother plays guitar, bass, and keyboards, so from an early age I found myself relating to female musicians."
And which female band initiated Pleather into the mysteries of love? "The first all-girl band I had a real experience with was the Pandoras. They started as a garage band, then went into metal. I was fifteen. They were in their late twenties, and all too willing to have a plaything in their midst. Things got really crazy; they were very free and open-let's just say that. They were not shy and would engage in couplings anytime-wherever and whenever was fine. They would do each other while you did them, get another guy over, two in one, every permutation possible. I went on tour with them and was kind of their toy."
"On more than one occasion he coupled with the entire band," Drama adds.
"Yeah, that happened," Pleather concedes. "It's for the record."
"He's rock and roll's best-kept secret," Drama continues. "People don't realize that he is the greatest feminist, and if you're gonna have a Band-Aid you might as well have Pleather around. Sure, you can have sex on the tour bus, but what matters about Pleather is that he's the most intelligent male I've ever met. And he wears pink hot pants! But some female musicians are afraid of him, because he's known as THE male groupie." I can't tell if Pleather is pleased by this handy little factoid or a tad embarrassed.
"Growing up, I was too young to realize that female rockers were a novelty. I came of age when the Runaways, Joan Jett, Patti Smith, and Heart came out. After the Pandoras, I moved on to Pleasant Gehman's band, the Screamin' Sirens. I think Pleasant got a kick out of treating men the way she'd been treated. I got a sense that she was playing a role; she was so much smarter than the people she followed around. I always thought she was better than Darby Crash and had a lot more to say."
I assume that due to his reputation, Pleather usually didn't have much trouble corralling the most coveted rock chicks.
"His reputation is that he has the biggest dick in rock and roll," Drama purrs.
"Don't believe the hype," Pleather counters.
I'll bet a lot of Pleather's partners have been equally impressed with his musical knowledge and appreciation. "I've studied the history of music, and I think all the stuff men had to say ended with punk rock, and that's where women started. Anything meaningful to be said in rock music today is being said by women. I've always been chasing that; I want to be at the center of where it happens. In 1990, there was no band with more of a buzz than L7. You'd walk into a club they were playing, and it felt like the world was gonna explode. They really had something to say. They came onstage and it was ultimate power. I had my longest association with them. I was their support system for several years, but it became a traumatic experience because my emotions were played with. I went back and forth between three members of the band. And I really loved all of them simultaneously, loved them more than anything. I would still be with any member of L7. An unfortunate, unprotected accident occurredone of them got pregnant. That was my cue to be ushered out of that situation because they are like a coven. They talk about each other behind their backs, but when something comes into their world, they just close ranks. They wouldn't return my phone calls. They'd just walk past me. It was heartbreaking because I considered them my family-sisters, lovers, everything. So I said, `That's it, from now on I'm gonna be celibate. I'm not getting emotionally involved.'"
He didn't lose his heart, but Pleather soon wound up catering to another troubled rock waif, Inger Lorre from the Nymphs, who is mainly remembered for getting pissy with her A&R man. Her album was in the can for too long, and in what would soon become legendary in naughty rock behavior, she climbed up on the unfortunate fellow's desk and urinated all over it. "I'd bring Inger to Perry Farrell's house to score heroin and help her shoot up, which I know was beyond the call of duty. She was so talented, but in such physical, spiritual, and mental pain. Heroin was the only thing taking her away from that. We'd watch Drugstore Cowboy five times in a row. One afternoon, I woke up and her breathing was strangely slow, and I couldn't wake her up. I knew there was a short amount of time before she'd be dead, so I had to do the ice cube method up her bum. I ended up saving her life that day. That relationship lasted about six months, but it was obvious there was no saving her. She was one of those people that you had to do what she did, so I was doing heroin with her. But I wouldn't take as much and was somehow able to keep my faculties."
Did Pleather feel like it was his duty to accommodate and encourage the women in his life? "Of course. Jennifer Finch from L7 introduced me to Courtney Love and I immediately recognized that she was on another level; she was a poet. She would open for L7 and I'd have to coach her before and after every show. She'd say, `I'm just not as good as L7.' I'd tell her, `You don't understand, you're gonna be huge, you're the next Patti Smith or Madonna. You're gonna be an icon!' When I knew her she was humble, and I think she's carried that through. I spent time with her when she was on the outs with her guitar player, Eric. They had an on-and-off relationship and he didn't care what she did because he knew he couldn't control her. He worshipped her too. But she put herself down. She gave it up to men. She doesn't believe she's as talented as she is, and she let Kurt, Billy Corgan, Trent Reznor influence her too much. All she needs to do is follow her artistic instincts. I did wind up with Courtney, but it was more of a friendship/love thing. I thought she was great, and I slept with her, but it was all in fun. I hate to say it, but she was pretty normal in bed. She wasn't wild. I don't know, maybe I'm wild, but she was nothing in comparison to the Pandoras-real Hollywood sleaze all the way. But I have nothing bad to say about Courtney. I think she was the bee's knees.
"Later, two of the Pandoras went on to form the Muffs, a band that destroyed themselves because of their egos. I was with Kim Shattuck for a while. What everybody thinks about Courtney was true about Kim; she'd completely destroy everyone around her for her own ego. No human feelings, just a robot."
Despite promises he made to himself about keeping his emotions in check, Pleather careened down the rock and roll rabbit hole again in 1992. "I fell in love completely with Carla Bozu- lich, the lead singer of the Geraldine Fibbers. I love brains and creative spirit. She was everything I'd ever looked for and I'm still looking for-the love of my life without a doubt. So, Carla and I started out as friends, and it turned out to be the longest courtship I ever had. I chased her, which I wasn't used to doing. She was a tortured genius, totally screwed up, just the way I like 'em. She needed lots of help, and I like helping."
"He likes 'em cra-zee," Drama chimes in.
"I just wanted to facilitate, so she didn't have to deal with the world. I wanted to remove anything placed between her and her creativity. I worshipped the ground she walked on. I kept the circus rolling, and for a while it worked." The ill-fated romance lasted just over two years before Carla found someone else. "That was the worst," Pleather moans. "I've dealt with deaths in the family, and it wasn't anywhere near the amount of pain I experienced losing Carla. That was the only time I found myself standing on the overpass with one foot on and one foot dangling. I we
nt into a three-year hermetic time-no sex, no relationships. I worked as a clerk in a bookstore, I read my books and started writing. I didn't even go out."
For cathartic reasons, Pleather started writing a book, I'm with the Girl Band. "I was going to check with you, to see if it would be all right," Pleather insists. I assure him that I'd be first in line to buy it.
From the time he was fifteen, and during his rocky relationships, Pleather played guitar in several local bands. "Yeah, I always had my own bands while I followed everyone else, but I never put any value on my music. For me it was all about them. But after my hermetic period, I said, 'OK, this is it, I'm focusing on other people too much, I'm gonna do my own thing.'" But when he put an ad in the paper, seeking "female friendly" musicians, he wound up being the only guy in his new group. "I had that band, Roller Girl, for a few years and fell in love with Rosanna the drummer, which pretty much destroyed my life again." Pleather sighs. "She was also in a goth band, and I became their aide, did everything for them. Then she joined Switchblade Kittens, and I met Drama. That was three years ago."
"He ended up breaking up with that drummer, then he married our next drummer. In fact, he's dated, lived with, or married all of our drummers," Drama adds. When I inquire as to how many drummers the Switchblade Kittens have gone through, Drama's answer cracks me up. "Seventeen! Seventeen psycho drummer girls that Pleather has tried to save."
"You're kidding me, right?" I marvel, "This is beginning to sound like Spinal Tap!" Pleather laughs heartily, "Yes! They spontaneously combust and then it's over! Seriously, taking care of a drummer is a full time job. Here's the fundamental differ ence I see between male and female groupies: all the women I've known just want to be talked to. They want someone to listen. I've always been empathetic. I like to listen and I like to help. I don't think most men put much stock in that. In a lot of ways, I think they just want to use women."
"You can be a successful woman in rock and don't have to resort to getting back at men," Drama says, "and some women have done that to Pleather."
"That's exactly what has happened," he agrees. "But I still refuse to hold it against any of them. Anyway, when I go out these days, I'm just there to be who I am. I'm there to be seen and make an impression-to be fabulous."
Drama digs into her purse and hands me a pastel pink Switchblade Kittens CD. She tells me the one they're working on now is going to be even better. "Pleather is my confidence in the studio," she adds, gently patting his hand.
"That's what I live for," he says. "That's why I do what I do. It's natural for me. I just have to be where the creativity is."
A few weeks later, on a gray, rainy day, Pleather and I meet up for another heart-to-heart at a coffee shop in my old Reseda neighborhood. I haven't been here in years, and sadly, it looks like any other bland corner in the Valley. But Pleather certainly stands out in his tight black ensemble, cute leather cap, and splendid woolly scarf that accents his high cheekbones. After a hug, he tells me he's glad we're alone this time. "It's not that I didn't tell you the truth last time, but Drama was there. It was probably good for you to see me like that, because that's how I am when I'm with a musician I admire. I ended up letting her tell my story."
Pleather gallantly buys me a vanilla latte and we sit by the window and listen to the pitter-pat of the rain. "I was walking here, thinking of what I wanted to say. I've always had my own bands, but I only ever wanted to be the guitar player in Blondie, or Bjorn in Abba. I want to be the person helping the goddessfemale-artist-singer. What I realized when I read your book, and all the ten thousand times I reread it, is that there's a positive and a negative to the whole experience. Being so profoundly influenced by my mother from an early age, it's simply innate for me to have empathy. I've subconsciously set up my entire life to take the traditionally feminine role in relationships. When I say feminine, I mean the person who is seen as weaker to the outside world, but is really the one making things happen. Women make the world go 'round, but the men take the credit." Pleather continues, "To me, the real revolution of the '70s wasn't punk-it was women taking a more powerful role. Punk was just a restatement of traditional values. The real shift was the female phenomenon, but I was too young to realize it. I would turn the television on, and see Wonder Woman and Charlie's Angels, all these women with guns. It was like, `Yeah! This rules!' I have all the Wonder Woman seasons on DVD. I was watching an episode with Drama recently, and she paused Wonder Woman in action. She was trying to talk to me, and I said, `I can't talk.' I had to turn around and face the other way. Wonder Woman still has this profound effect on me. It's insane! I had a fundamentally warped perception of women from an early age. I was very influenced by pop culture, and that's when the women's movement really became mainstream. It wasn't so much the manifesto, bra-burning thing. It's more like when it reaches the pop mainstream, that's when the revolution really happens. I had to be a part of it and be plugged into the ultimate center." Pleather laughs. "That's a pretty sexual metaphor; I didn't mean it quite that way. There's just something ultimately greater. If you're not one of those people thinking, `I'm larger than life,' then you want to be with a person who is larger than life. The first time I laid eyes on Courtney, I knew she was a genius. There was something in her, the same thing I recognized when I saw Dylan or Patti Smith. People like that have an aura about them. There's such a glow."
What, besides his God-given, majestic physical endowment, made the goddesses flock to Ian "Pleather" Wagner?
"I have a saving complex, and I tend to go for the ones who are the most screwed up. A friend of mine said, `If Squeaky Fromme and Donna Reed were standing next to each other, you would go for Squeaky.' And I said, `Yeah, exactly.' I just want to help, I want to fix, and I want to be the shoulder. With Courtney, I saw someone with a lot of hurt; genuine, honest female energy; rage; and knowledge. She just needed to be told how great she was. At that time, there was no one telling her she was great. No one. Every single musician I knew would say, `I can't believe you go see Hole. They are the worst band I've ever seen.' This was in the beginning, when they used my friend's house as their practice space. At the time, L7 were going to be the next big thing, the big revolution band-female rockers doin' it. Courtney was opening for them, and I had to give her confidence to go on. Every time she played a show, I would be there. It got ridiculous. One club was so broken-down, they only had one mic stand. Halfway through the show, the stand broke, and Courtney said, `Well, I guess the show's over.' I said, `No, let me hold it,' and I held the thing up. I was trying to rock out and hold the mic stand for her at the same time. How metaphoric can you get?" He laughs, "No, that's beyond metaphor; it's too literal."
So, what's the secret? How did he go from holding her mic stand to getting in her panties?
"There's a lot of truth in certain caricatures, the way women and men relate to each other. Women primarily just want to be listened to and empathized with. They want to be rough, tough, and in control at certain times and not in control other times. I've always had a sixth sense about knowing the right time to be the listener-to be the girlfriend, basically, and exactly when to shift back into the male role. I think the success I've had with women is because of that. They aren't used to having a guy put his own ego under. It's a rare thing for women to experience. It has to do with finding a sympathetic soul. It's like souls in transit. You may be on a different path, but it's OK as long as you have that one experience, that one night. The best time I had with Courtney was just kissing. We were sitting in front of a club, cars were passing by, everyone was inside getting drunk, and for ten minutes, being alone with her, kissing and making out." I can tell by his dreamy look that Pleather is enjoying this particular sense memory.
"That feeling is what I've been chasing ever since. That was probably the most romantic moment, the sweetest experience I've ever had." Pleather pauses and smiles, "I guess that's kind of sad."
I understand completely. He had a tender moment with his icon, and it's become
one of those extremely rare snapshot memories.
"Actually, I've had very few sexual experiences that didn't also have a lot to do with sharing emotions. Women's emotions are very close to the surface, and when you tap into that, it all comes pouring out. Female musicians have a lot of hurt they need to express. And if you show some interest, they're more than willing to share their emotions, their souls, and their bodies with you."
It sounds to me that even though Pleather has had his heart destroyed a time or three, the torture and tribulation has been worth it. "Oh yeah, that's the main thing I want to say. No matter how badly I got treated-and I did get badly treated by a lot of them-there isn't a single woman that I hold anything against. We're all just trying to do the best we can and make our own lives work. It was an honor for me to be around them for the short amount of time I was. It was my pleasure. I would give any one of them my last two dollars."
Before we open our umbrellas and head out into the Reseda rain, Pleather surprises me. "I've Joined the Switchblade Kittens," he announces proudly. "I'm cowriting and coproducing their album, which is turning out great. And that's so fulfilling, I can't even say. I'm also codirecting their documentary. There's a lot of stuff going on with that band. They're like a multimedia, crazy circus."
I have to ask. Is he dating the drummer?
"No, no, no," he laughs, reassuring me. "I'm going to try to separate business and pleasure for once in my life. And I'm discovering that the grass isn't really always greener over there. We tend to put more value on other people's stories than our own. We value the mad, visionary genius, artistic people. We're fascinated by them and think, `Oh my God, where does she get those ideas?' Of course, I'm still enthralled with that and always will be. And I make no apologies whatsoever for chasing my dream. But hopefully, the natural balance starts to happen and you begin to value your own story and realize your own worth." Pleather pauses for a moment, looking into the dark winter sky, then smiles at me, "But I still love Lynda Carter. If I saw her, I would just ... I would ... I would just fall down dead. All I've been looking for, ever, is Wonder Woman with a guitar!"
Let's Spend the Night Together: Backstage Secrets of Rock Muses and Supergroupies Page 29