by Etan Thomas
Etan: I’ve seen you wearing Muhammad Ali shirts, I saw you on the ESPN cover wearing the Black Panther–esque beret. Were you influenced by Muhammad Ali and the Black Panthers?
Anthony: I was always educated about that. I read Muhammad Ali and Malcolm X and the Panthers, and really examined the things they were saying. I didn’t just read it and glance over it, I really examined it, you know? And, my dad was on the Puerto Rican side, part of the Young Lords Organization, so that’s in my genes. To go out and get the information, stand up for what you believe in, fight for what you believe in, and not to just talk, but to do action. Anybody can talk, but the Malcolms, the Alis, the Young Lords, the Panthers, they were about action. Putting together programs that would help the community, help the youth, empower and educate the youth. That’s how you really create change and make a difference . . .
The system is broken. That’s something I keep repeating over and over. And it’s like, they don’t want to teach us what we need to know to survive, so we have to educate ourselves and educate our youth. You can’t know how to deal with the police if you were never educated on how to deal with them, and at the same time, the police have to be educated on how to deal with people, and neither one is happening . . . When I was growing up, we knew all the police by their first name, we even gave them nicknames, that’s how familiar we were with them. And when the white police came into our neighborhood, the Black police said, “Yo, we got this.” That doesn’t happen anymore.
You gotta know the community that you are policing. That’s like me playing on a team but I don’t know any of the players. How is that gonna work? You got these police that know absolutely nothing about the places they are supposed to protect and serve. That doesn’t even make sense.
If you had community policing, I don’t believe Terence Crutcher would have been executed the way he was.
Etan: Your platform as an athlete, it’s like a blessing, but can it also be a burden?
Anthony: It only becomes a burden when you say something and you don’t follow through . . . But when you say what you’re gonna do and you follow up, there is no burden because it’s a part of who you are as a human being.
Etan: Tell me about what you did in Los Angeles. You got the men’s USA Olympic basketball team and the women’s team all together right before y’all went over to Brazil to play in the Olympics, and y’all had a town hall meeting in South Central Los Angeles. It was called “Leadership Together: A Conversation with Our Sons and Daughters.” Sounds like it was really powerful.
Anthony: So I put together this town hall, and I knew that I had all the best basketball players in the world together in one place, so in LA I wanted to get in front of the youth, the police chiefs, the commissioners, the mayors, and bring them into one place and have a dialogue. I wanted the police to hear from the youth and I wanted the youth to hear from the police. And one of the main things that came out of that discussion was that there is a lack of trust. We don’t trust the police . . . because when we see police, we run, automatically, they get scared, they get defensive, they think something bad is about to happen to them. And the police needed to hear them say that and express that fear that they feel.
Then, I also wanted the youth to hear the police’s story, because they never get an opportunity to be exposed to their side or their perspective and their fear. The difference is, they’re scared but they have guns, you know? We’re scared, and we have nothing. And everyone needed to hear everyone’s perspectives. And also, the youth needed to hear the police officers say out of their mouths that they didn’t agree with everything that was going on and that they weren’t in support of some of the murders that were happening around the country. It was good for them to see that not all police officers were bad . . . It was really touching.
Etan: So what was the response from the youth after this forum?
Anthony: You had some of the youth that were relieved to be able to get that out and talk about that because they don’t have any platform to be heard. And they want to be heard. People gotta understand, when they take away all of your resources, you become hopeless, and voiceless. Kids need to have a voice, they need to have someone who will listen to their concerns just to know that somebody cares, but all that is happening is that they’re taking away their resources and opportunities and showing them that their lives just aren’t important to them. When I was coming up, we had rec centers, parks, after-school programs, basketball courts, football fields—you had all these different things that you could go do. But now, and this is in communities across the country, it’s like they are taking all that away. Closing parks, closing rec centers.
Etan: And did you see a change in the police?
Anthony: Yeah. A lot of them came up to me afterward and said, “Hey, we need more of this because honestly, we don’t know what they’re thinking. We’re just out there trying to protect and serve and we don’t know what their fears are and what their mind-sets are, and we don’t hear these conversations.” They really wanted to get across that all police are not bad. But it was really good for everybody all around
Etan: D Wade and I talked about the ESPYs and how everyone had their own specific messages that they wanted to convey. Talk about what your specific message was.
Anthony: My message was, first of all, how four athletes at the top of the game could come together and give you one message, four different ways. And we just said, “Why don’t we just go out there and just say it? We don’t have to do too much scripting and planning. Let’s all go out and say exactly what’s on our hearts.” And we had all of the best athletes from around the world in one place at that time, and for them to hear that, it was just really powerful. It also put the pressure on a lot of people to step up to the challenge too . . . I wanted to put the pressure on the other athletes to step up and do what they can in their own networks and their own communities.
The problems and issues are not new. If we talk to our parents and grandparents and aunts and uncles, they’ll tell us they’ve been fighting this fight for a long time . . . But urgency for change is at an all-time high, and we ain’t got no time to be worried about no criticism, or endorsements, or what this or that person is gonna think. People’s lives are at risk, so we all have to do what we can.
Interview with Bill Russell
Bill Russell is a pioneer. He is on the Mount Rushmore of athlete-activists. I remember learning about him at a young age. His eleven championship rings during his thirteen-year career are the most of any NBA player to date, but what I marvel at is his courage and what he stood for, at a time when Boston wasn’t exactly shy about its racism.
I remember reading his memoir Go Up for Glory, and being enthralled by every word. From dealing with racism as a child growing up, how his parents were victims of racial abuse, how during games at the University of San Francisco he and his Black teammates were verbally attacked with the most disgusting and vile epithets you can imagine. When a hotel owner denied him and other NBA all-stars rooms in a very segregated North Carolina. While with the Celtics, he and his Black teammates were refused service at a Lexington, Kentucky, restaurant, and he and the other Black teammates refused to play. He was active in the Black Power movement and supported Muhammad Ali as soon as the champion refused to be drafted into the army. It was an absolute honor to interview Bill Russell for this book.
Etan: After the Cavs won the championship in 2016, in the midst of their celebration, the camera caught you speaking to LeBron and him listening very intensely. What wisdom were you passing on to him and how did he receive it?
Bill Russell: Well, the first thing I told him was congratulations . . . Then I spoke with him about the responsibility of being great and that he had to be willing to accept that responsibility. I told him that no leader can be great without his teammates. No matter how great he is. And LeBron was very receptive to what I was saying, he thanked me, told me how much he appreciated my advice, and how much he respected me. He is going to go
far because he is always willing to learn and doesn’t think he knows everything, even though he is one of the greatest, if not the greatest, player on the planet.
Etan: One of the things that a lot of guys reference when speaking about you is the situation that happened while you were playing for the Boston Celtics before an exhibition game in the 1961–1962 season in Lexington, Kentucky. So you and your teammate were denied service in a restaurant because it was whites-only. And you said (and of course, I am paraphrasing here), “Oh, okay, this is a whites-only restaurant? Our Black money is no good here? Well, fine.” And you and the rest of the team flew back home without playing in the exhibition game. I can’t imagine the amount of courage it took to do that, and the level of scrutiny you must have received upon returning to Boston, a city that isn’t known for being a very welcoming and warm place for Black people.
Russell: (Laughing) Well, that’s one way to put it. It was simple. I said, “If we can’t eat here, we can’t play here.” We made the point clear that we were human beings and had to be treated with the dignity of human beings the same way you treat everybody else . . . So it was simple . . . And I’m not going to name names, but at least half a dozen very high-profile white players came to me and said to me privately, “You guys did the right thing, and we have a lot of respect for you. Now, don’t expect us to say any of this publicly (laughing), because if this all blows up, you’re on your own.” When we returned to Boston, the reaction from the press and a lot of the so-called fans was exactly what you would think it would be. Boston was not exactly a liberal oasis. In fact, a couple of writers said that the league should’ve suspended every single one of the Black players who refused to play, for insubordination, not fulfilling the obligations of their contracts . . . They said that the NBA should banish us because we—and get this—we hurt the feelings of some of the white players.
Etan: Hmmm.
Russell: Yeah, that’s exactly what I said: Hmmm.
Etan: But you stood strong with it . . .
Russell: I didn’t care what none of them said. I didn’t care one bit. I didn’t need their approval or their pat on the back . . . Let me tell you about where I come from in Louisiana. Louisiana at that time was all about the separation of the races. It was just a different time. And my mother would tell me to be careful, because if you were doing something wrong it would reflect negatively on all of us, and if you were doing something right, it would reflect positively on all of us, and if you went along with something that was wrong, it would affect all of us. So that’s all I was focused on, doing what was right.
Etan: That’s some great wisdom that was passed down to you. How was it to win championships for Boston, and then to come home and find out that people have broken into your home, ransacked everything, and actually defecated in your bed? These same fans that cheer you when you are winning championship after championship. I honestly couldn’t imagine having that happen to me.
Russell: Well, one thing you have to always remember is that the majority of the country are decent folks. The majority of white people are decent folks. And I was always very careful not to stereotype people based on the actions of a few, or of a little more than a few, as was the case in Boston (laughing) . . . A lot of the stuff that went on, in my mind, I knew that they were individual acts and not a reflection of everybody in Boston, because I would see and still see today what many people really think and believe—that Black folks are responsible for all of the actions of other Black folks, and that’s just ridiculous . . . And it’s just as crazy for me to think that all white people were responsible for the ones that treated me and my family so poorly, broke into my house, destroyed my property for no reason at all.
When I was with the Celtics, I was still very much connected to Louisiana. So one time in the off-season, I went down to see my friends and family. Now, this guy who was my barber’s former boss sent for me. And I said okay. So I go to his house to ring his doorbell and the lady that answered the door said, “You have to go around to the back. You can’t come in here through the front door.” And she said it like I was ridiculous for even thinking that I could come through the front door like white folks. So I turned around and went home. And he called my father and told on me like I did something wrong.
And this was after Eisenhower had invited a lot of athletes to the White House, and I was one of the guys he invited and all of us went in the front door. Now I am saying to myself, The president of the United States invites me to come to the White House and he didn’t suggest that I go around to the back, but a regular Joe invites me to his house and you expect me to go to the back of the house? You must be crazy (laughing). Just because I said that I don’t put all white people in the same boat doesn’t mean I don’t still recognize that too many white people looked at me as less-than, and no matter what they thought, I wasn’t about to allow them to treat me as less-than.
Etan: That’s great how you made that point. I have been quoting you since I was in high school, especially when you said, “I refuse to allow you to reduce me to a clown used to entertain your circus.”
Russell: Well, at that time, the most prominent Black athletes were the Globetrotters. I refused to play for the Globetrotters although they offered me the most money. I was publicly criticized by Abe Saperstein for refusing. He said I was out of my mind. But I told him and everyone else that I am a basketball player, and not a clown. In fact, I’m the best basketball player there is.
Etan: My grandfather always said that he felt embarrassed as a Black man when he would watch the Globetrotters do their routine.
Russell: Well, your grandfather was a smart man . . . Jackie Robinson had been my ultimate hero because, of course, he was a great baseball player, but more importantly, he didn’t take no mess from nobody. Up until Jackie, no matter how good you were, you had to say that you were lucky to be able to play with these guys. Even in the cases where you were actually better than them . . . And when Jackie came along, he showed that we could walk with our heads up. We didn’t have to be in a demeaning posture in order for you to accept us, or we didn’t have to make you laugh, or entertain you, we could play on your level . . . That’s why I will always admire and respect someone like Jackie Robinson, because that’s what he represented for all of us.
Etan: So who were some of the people who mentored Bill Russell?
Russell: My father, first of all. That’s why we left Louisiana. He said, “We can’t stay here, because I love my children. And if some of this stuff that is happening around here happens to one of my kids, I will kill one of these people. And then, my kids will have to grow up without a father.” One of the things he always stressed to me was to always demand respect. You don’t allow anyone, no matter who they are, to make you feel less-than. You always hold your head up high, and you always walk with pride knowing that you are special. My father also stressed that I had to always conduct myself in order to command respect. And those lessons really carried me all through my entire life. They guided my actions. I have tried to always conduct myself in a way that my mother and my father would never be ashamed of. My mother was a really proud woman. So between my mother and father I had a foundation that prepared me for life.
Etan: Powerful. I wanted to ask you about the summit in Cleveland in June 1967 . . .
Russell: Well, Muhammad Ali and I had a special connection even before all of that. We both won gold medals for the Olympics before we turned professional . . . Now, I came along with the educated athletes. Most of the times, they went to college and got degrees and everyone had their various experiences. And we all respected each other because we all knew what we had to go through in order to rise to the top of your profession. And so we supported each other . . .
Our organizations that we all played and worked for were constantly saying bad things about Ali, and we all heard it, and it bothered all of us the same way. Especially the ones like me who knew him personally or had a personal experience with him . . . And we under
stood how a large majority of the prominent Black athletes at that time, especially if you stood up for yourself and for your people in any way, were almost immediately given the reputation of being bad guys. There was so much that I respected about Muhammad Ali. I admired his professionalism, of course he was the greatest boxer around, and it took awhile for the nation to recognize that, but he was. I know in my case, and Jim Brown’s case and Kareem’s case, they would have never approved of us supporting Muhammad Ali. And there were some other Black athletes who didn’t support what Muhammad Ali was doing because they didn’t want it to mess up their situation. But as soon as I found out about it, I knew that I had to support my brother. I wasn’t going to have him out there standing by himself.
Etan: So what is your advice to younger athletes now who want to follow in your footsteps and stand up for what they believe in?
Russell: My first piece of advice would be to learn your trade and put into practice what you have learned. And never be afraid to stand up for what you believe. But also, every Black athlete cannot be a Jim Brown or Kareem or Ali—you have to be who you are. But if you choose to stand up, you can’t be worried about the negative press or criticism or the people who will start to attack you on all fronts . . . You have to be strong enough to withstand that, ignore it, and keep your eyes on the prize. If you are not strong enough to do that, you might as well go sit in the corner somewhere and just be quiet . . . Let me also say this . . . when you are a prominent athlete, there is much more to it than playing the game. There is a responsibility that you do have to your community . . . What you say or don’t say can bring about change or no change. You can have an effect on people you don’t even know. You mind if I tell you another story?