by Etan Thomas
Etan: So what do you think about the misogyny? I have daughters, you have daughters.
Cuban: You know, I have heard a lot in my lifetime, and if you wanna be a player, be a player, but abusing somebody and harming somebody, that’s way past ridiculous. And I’m not going to name names, but I know some of the women, and it wasn’t funny. It wasn’t like he was just hitting on them, or even making questionable comments. It was like some crazy stuff, and it was wrong, period. And nobody cares who he is sleeping with—at least I don’t—but if you are physically abusing people, that’s a whole different issue.
Etan: I agree. Let’s talk about the racism, especially during the elections. I mentioned the dog whistles, and we can see who he plays to in Texas, where you are from, and in Oklahoma, where I am from. There is a certain demographic that . . .
Cuban: Oh, you mean the rednecks.
Etan: I wasn’t going to say that, but there is a certain demographic and it was troublesome to hear and see that demographic feel empowered because they felt he represented them. So they voted against their own interest, and he of course played to that, although he cares nothing about them.
Cuban: He knows exactly what he is doing in that respect. He may be ignorant and oblivious in certain areas—well, a lot of areas—but he knows exactly what he was doing here because it was an obvious strategy that proved to have worked. He knows the dog whistles, he knows he’s inciting people, and I don’t think he has a problem with it, and that’s as scary as anything . . .
You know, I think resistance is a good thing. Especially in this case with Donald Trump . . . There’s rarely fights, people aren’t burning things; it’s just people standing up and cheering and shouting what they think is right, and that’s always a positive. I don’t think he will last four years because he is so uneducated about governing that he’ll screw up on something and not realize he did it and get impeached for something, because if you don’t read, you don’t know. If you don’t know the rules of basketball, and you decide to just run with the ball without dribbling, it ain’t gonna work. I want him to succeed, because the economy does well if the country does well. Even if you have someone that you hate at the top of the food chain, you can still do well. You don’t always have to love your boss and you don’t have to always like the people you work with.
Etan: Athletes are speaking out at a level that we really haven’t seen since the sixties. Do you think that’s a positive development, and do you encourage your players to speak their minds?
Cuban: Definitely. But in terms of the bigger picture, should athletes and coaches and CEOs, as you say . . . should they all speak out? Definitely when the Iraq War happened and we had Steve Nash who spoke out against it, and I was perfectly fine with that. Athletes should speak out. You’re a citizen. It’s your right to speak out. And if you don’t take advantage of your rights as an American citizen, it’s not about the game, it’s not about the sport—it’s about you. Of course, you don’t have to do it. Everybody isn’t politically outspoken or even has a political opinion. I avoided politics forever, but you should definitely have the freedom to do so if you choose.
Interview with Steve Kerr
My mother used to tell me how people would stop her in the grocery store, at the mall, at church, wherever, to warn her about various repercussions I could face from speaking out the way that I had ever since I found my voice in high school. People would warn her that no university was going to want to recruit a rabble-rouser. That proved to be incorrect, and although Coach Jim Boeheim and I may have had some strained relations over the course of my four years in college, he never once suggested that I should not be the outspoken person that I always was. From the day I was on the front page of the Syracuse paper protesting a policy that allowed campus security to use pepper spray on students, to when I was speaking out on the NCAA exploiting college athletes. Now, Coach Boeheim didn’t agree with me and felt that it was perfectly okay for him to enjoy a lavish multimillion-dollar salary, his own radio show, TV deals, endorsements from Nike and various other companies, and that the “opportunity” given to college athletes was more than enough compensation for us. Still, he never attempted to silence me.
In fact, I just recently commended Coach Boeheim on using his platform to bring about change when he spoke out for the need for gun control after his nine hundredth win. He became the third coach in NCAA history to win that many games, and he seized that moment when he had the ear of all of college basketball to say: “If we in this country as Americans cannot get the people who represent us to do something about firearms, we are a sad, sad society. I’m a hunter. I’ve hunted. I’m not talking about rifles. That’s fine. If one person in this world, the NRA president, anybody, can tell me why we need assault weapons with thirty shots in the thing. This is our fault. This is my fault and your fault. All of your faults . . . If we can’t get this thing done, I don’t know what kind of country we have.”
Of course, not every situation is like the ones I have had. But from college with Jim Boeheim, to the pros with Mark Cuban, to Abe Pollin, to Coach Eddie Jordan who was also very supportive of my activism, to Sam Presti, to Scott Brooks who told me that he had read a few of my articles over the years and thought that I touched on a multitude of topics that were difficult but very necessary for people to discuss—I just didn’t experience what I always heard people were afraid of. Now, there are definitely people who have experienced repercussions, such as Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf and Craig Hodges, but that was then and this is now. We are living in an age where for the most part athlete activism is being encouraged and met with praise. Again, you will always have people who will criticize, but it is unnecessary to have the same fear of repercussions as so many people once had, especially when you have so many coaches who themselves are using their platforms and their voices to speak out on different issues, such as Golden State Warriors head coach Steve Kerr.
After the 2016 elections, Kerr spoke passionately to the media about his thoughts on Donald Trump. He said that not only did he disapprove of the lack of respect that Trump had shown so many, but that he was outright disgusted. In his own words:
Maybe we should have seen it coming over the last ten years, you look at society, you look at what’s popular, people are getting paid millions of dollars to go on TV and scream at each other, whether it’s in sports, or politics, or entertainment, and I guess it was only a matter of time before it spilled into politics, but then all of a sudden, you’re faced with a reality of the man who’s going to lead you has routinely used racist, misogynistic, insulting words . . .
I hope he is a good president. I have no idea what kind of president he will be because he hasn’t said anything about what he’s going to do . . . But it’s tough when you want there to be some respect and dignity, and there hasn’t been any. And then you walk into a room with your daughter and your wife, who have basically been insulted by his comments, and they’re distraught. Then you walk in and see the faces of your players, most of them who have been insulted directly as minorities. It’s very shocking, it really is.
I was glad to be able to sit down with Coach Steve Kerr and ask him to go into this subject a little deeper.
Etan: What pushed you to speak out the way that you did and as strongly as you did?
Steve Kerr: I think just the injustice that I was seeing. There are a few issues that I am particularly passionate about, one being gun control. My father was murdered, so gun control is always something that I am very passionate about, and that was really the first issue that I brought up with the media about a year ago. So, that kind of opened up the door a little bit. Then the elections came and people started asking me for my opinion and reaction . . . In the past, the media didn’t ask me about political or social issues. But between the Kaepernick situation and the elections, athletes were all of a sudden being asked more and more about these topics.
Etan: Did you have a conversation with your players after the election?
K
err: Yes, we talked leading up to the elections, and we talked the very next day after the elections. I asked the guys how they felt the day after, and everyone was extremely upset, but we had a great discussion about it and it was great for us as a team. Everyone had a chance to vent, which was definitely needed for them and myself. It was a very intense discussion, but we needed it. I like to get the players’ opinions and for them to have a voice and to think about things other than basketball all the time, and it was really productive for us to do that, especially at that moment after the elections.
Etan: Trump’s misogyny: how did that affect you as a father and husband?
Kerr: My daughter and my wife were so disgusted when the tapes came out of Trump talking about grabbing women by the you-know-what. You start examining the totality of the situation and you start thinking that this man is in the most important leadership position in the world. Forget politics, forget policy, forget gun control or abortion or tax laws, forget all that—there are always going to be people on both sides of those issues—but dignity, human respect, those things are the most important things in a leadership position. And the only way to get through the issues that we argue over year after year is through genuine human connection and respect and communication, and those things have to start at the top. So when all of a sudden you see the guy who is going to be leading your country using these profane remarks and treating people like dirt, that’s pretty upsetting.
Etan: Do you think that more coaches speaking out is a sign of the times and how drastic of a situation we are in with Trump?
Kerr: I think it’s a couple of things. First of all, I think there’s definitely a call to action right now that maybe didn’t exist over the last twenty or thirty years . . . But you’re right, coaches in the past have generally not been at the forefront, it’s been mostly players. But I think the connection with Pop [Gregg Popovich] and Stan [Van Gundy] and myself is that number one, all three of us feel very comfortable in our own skin . . . We have had success so we have some job stability and security. But beyond that, I don’t think that any of us really have any fear about being fired over saying something that is just, if that makes sense . . .
Etan: So you think the same pressures on players not to speak out are on coaches as well?
Kerr: Maybe even more so, because I think coaches are definitely representatives of the organization. Whereas players are viewed more as the labor force and coaches are more perceived as being on the management side. And I had that conversation with our owner, Joe Lacob, and I was very sensitive to the fact that I . . . was representing my views . . . I wanted to make that clear to Joe, and he and I had a really good discussion about this. He was very respectful of my right to speak and I was respectful of the idea that I needed to toe the line a little bit and make sure that people understand that these are my remarks and not the remarks of the Golden State Warriors organization.
Etan: How were your conversations with the team about the Kaepernick situation?
Kerr: Well, I asked them how they felt about it and I reassured them that they had the organization’s blessings to do whatever they wanted and whatever they felt was right, but they also had a responsibility to let us know beforehand because it directly affects the perception of our franchise . . . and that we had to prepare for the best way for the organization to react to people’s responses to that. But I reiterated that they were grown men and American citizens and they could do anything they want . . . I think with Kaepernick, we all saw his message become more refined as it went, and he did a great job of seeking counsel from people—for instance, going from sitting on the bench to kneeling, I thought that was a great step for him. It showed more of a respect for the flag.
Etan: It would be great to see more organizations and more coaches follow your lead and the Golden State Warriors’ lead in how you give them the freedom to be who they are. Would you like to see that become more prevalent as well?
Kerr: For sure. I think that’s just my coaching philosophy all around, whether dealing with politics or the game itself. I ask our players all the time: “How do you want to guard the pick-and-roll? You guys are the ones on the floor. This is what I suggest, but what do you think?” And I believe it empowers them and I think the same thing should be true with off-the-court issues. “You guys are grown men, what do you think? Your opinion matters. But understand that if you’re going to speak out, make sure that you are informed on these matters.” I think that’s where some people can get in trouble: if they are not quite informed on a subject but they bring the subject up. It’s easy to get cornered . . . so you better be prepared and ready to stand up for what you believe in and what you think is right.
Interview with Kenny Smith
When a coach like Steve Kerr has conversations with his team after Trump’s election, and he can teach and learn at the same time—that’s how it should be. He gave them the space to vent and air out that anger and talk about it as a team. That’s how coaches should handle their players. Respect their opinions and give them a safe space to voice them while also being secure that what they say can’t and won’t be used against them. I can’t stress how important that is. Not only from a standpoint of respecting their opinions, but from one of team unity. It brings guys together. As one unit. You are able to learn more about your teammates and what affects them and what they are passionate about.
On November 14, 2017, Time magazine published an article by Detroit Pistons head coach Stan Van Gundy in which he wrote the following:
After reading the book Tears We Cannot Stop: A Sermon to White America, I invited its author, the acclaimed scholar and expert on race Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, to come talk to our team. He discussed the difference between nationalism and patriotism, and it stuck with me. Nationalism, he said, is supporting your country no matter what, right or wrong. Patriotism, on the other hand, is caring so deeply about your country that you take it as your duty to hold it accountable to its highest values and to fight to make it the very best it can be. Under this definition, these athletes and coaches are role models of American patriotism.
I wanted to ask Inside the NBA’s Kenny Smith how important it was for coaches to use their platforms, and he brought up a lot of good points. A former NBA player turned commentator, Smith talks about the effectiveness of having someone like San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich publicly speak on various social issues. How some people are simply going to hear it differently coming from Popovich or Coach Kerr. That’s just a fact. I remember being floored by Pop discussing white privilege in an article. He was simply asked the question what Black History Month meant to him and his response was priceless: “It’s a celebration of some of the good things that have happened and a reminder that there’s a lot more work to do. But more than anything, I think if people take the time to think about it, I think it is our national sin.”
He went on to say, “It always intrigues me when people come out with, ‘I’m tired of talking about that,’ or, ‘Do we have to talk about race again?’ The answer is, you’re damn right we do. Because it’s always there, and it’s systemic in the sense of when you talk about opportunity, it’s not about, well, if you lace up your shoes and work hard, you can have the American dream. That’s a bunch of hogwash. If you were born white, you automatically have a monstrous advantage educationally, economically, culturally . . . We have huge problems in that regard that are very complicated, but take leadership, time, and real concern to try to solve. It’s a tough one because people don’t really want to face it. And it’s in our national discourse.”
But he didn’t stop there. He continued, “We have a president of the United States who spent four or five years disparaging and trying to illegitimize our president, and we know that it was a big fake, but he still felt for some reason that it had to be done.”
I remember seeing the clip of Pop saying that and being like, Wow!!! I never would have imagined that he felt that way. I remember seeing Coach Stan Van Gundy speak after Trump
was elected and again was floored when he said: “I didn’t vote for [George W.] Bush, but he was a good, honorable man with whom I had political differences, so I didn’t vote for him. But for our country to be where we are now, who took a guy who—I don’t care what anyone says, I’m sure they have other reasons and maybe good reasons for voting for Donald Trump—but I don’t think anybody can deny this guy is openly and brazenly racist and misogynistic and ethnic-centric . . .”
Powerful, powerful statements. Never before have so many coaches in any sport used their positions and their platforms to speak about an election in this way. We are definitely living in a special time.
Etan: How significant is it for coaches and management to use their voices around social justice issues?
Kenny Smith: I think it is vitally important because, when you think of your coach, a lot of people relate that to a father figure . . . So, how could a coach, who is coaching Black players, and is seen as a father figure, not have some form of Black consciousness? . . . In addition, them having Black consciousness is a great awakening to the masses who they also touch. And that’s why it’s vital that Steve Kerr, Stan Van Gundy, Popovich, and Cuban are all a part of this activism. It will make them allies to further the cause. It wasn’t important to the masses in the sixties until non–African Americans thought it was important.
Etan: They speak to an audience who is not going to be able to hear Colin Kaepernick.