by Etan Thomas
Etan: There is this notion out there, with Black media especially, that if you do speak on this you will be punished. Would you agree?
Jones: I think generally speaking that people would prefer not to offend. I think no matter the topic we are discussing, people would generally not want to isolate people, or lose supporters, and overall not offend anyone. And I can’t necessarily knock people for that because I can see where their point of origin is. Now, as far as the thought that you will be punished for saying certain things, you definitely run the risk of doing that . . . I do feel there are people who fear that those who are “on top” will punish them for stating what these views happen to be.
Etan: Do you think that some reporters and media personalities put the fear of offending mainstream America over the fear of offending the people in their own community?
Jones: (Laughing) Yes, people do put the fear of offending mainstream America over the fear of offending the Black community. I think people think that the community will understand their hustle and what it takes to get to the position they want to get to . . . I think it is far more harmful and far more toxic if someone is willing to come out and say something they don’t believe just because.
Etan: Maybe they would get a pat on the head from the executives. Maybe they would be rewarded by being moved up the ladder past other people who don’t always say what mainstream America wants to hear. So if someone wants to see them tap-dance, they bring their shoes nice and shined and ready, even if they don’t like tap-dancing and it actually hurts their feet to do so. It’s the price they pay.
Jones: Hmm, okay, I see what you did there (laughing).
Etan: But do you disagree?
Jones: No, I don’t. It happens.
Etan: I remember seeing you on Mike & Mike wearing the T-shirt that said, Caucasians, with a caricature of the Cleveland Indians logo. I live here in DC and we’ve been having our own battle with the racist name of our Washington NFL team. But you knew that by wearing that shirt, and drawing that connection to the topic of mascots and the level of offensiveness they possess, you were going to offend people in mainstream America. Take me through the reaction you received when you wore that shirt.
Jones: You know, the funny part about that was I am probably the only person in America who didn’t see or realize how that was going to go over when I wore that shirt.
Etan: Really? How did you think it was going to go over? Did you think mainstream America was going to draw the conclusion that, “Yeah, I would be offended if a team had a mascot of my people like that,” and see the error in having Native American caricatures for so many sports teams across the country?
Jones: Well, when you say it like that . . . (laughing). But yeah, I thought that it was so transparent and so obvious. I mean, we have been having the mascot conversation nationally for some time now. This wasn’t like a new discussion that I brought to the forefront or anything. The only thing about that shirt that turned out to be bold or anything was that I found out that a whole lot of white people were really offended and didn’t like the notion of the word Caucasians. That was perhaps the most surprising thing about it . . . It’s not like it said Pale Faces or anything like that. Caucasians was just about as technical of a term that we could have possibly used . . .
I thought that the logic was so clear and so transparent that if you tolerate and are comfortable with the notion of the Cleveland Indians, then you cannot have any issue with this shirt . . . But the hypocrisy of it all—that all you had to do was make a simple flip-flop with a nonoffensive image and they would be that irate—was just amazing to me. And the funny thing is, if you asked someone to logically break down why they were so upset and why they were so offended, they wouldn’t be able to.
Etan: What was the reaction from the people at ESPN?
Jones: Well, I didn’t have any disciplinary issues or anything like that, and I think part of it was, nobody was in any position to logically say what I had done wrong when they use that same image on SportsCenter when the teams play.
Etan: Do you think it would take something like flipping all of the cases of Black people being killed to them all being white in order for mainstream America to understand why we say Black Lives Matter?
Jones: That’s a really good question. I honestly don’t know the answer to that. I don’t know if it would make those same people make the connection to Black folks, just like me wearing the shirt didn’t make them see the connection to Native Americans like I thought they would. The ultimate issue is, there is a different set of rules when dealing with Black people than there is when dealing with white people. There is a different level of empathy when mainstream America hears that a Black man was killed versus when they hear that a white man was killed . . .
Etan: I was hoping it would make them open their eyes to say, “Oh, this is what Kaepernick was talking about, this is what John Carlos and Tommie Smith were talking about back in the 1968 Olympics, this is what Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf and Craig Hodges were talking about in the nineties.”
Jones: But you know what? There are some people who do make the connection. I don’t want to make it seem like nobody connects those dots, and hopefully, when people are reading this and hear us connecting those dots, it makes them think about this in a way that they never had before. But I think you will in fact find a lot of people who are more offended by a false accusation of racism than they are by any racism whatsoever, and I feel that they are defending their own self-esteem as much as anything else, because everybody wants to believe that they are good people . . . So Black Lives Matter in a lot of ways is about self-esteem, but in a totally understandable and justifiable way. Look, we matter, and we are going to reinforce the fact that we are fully human beings and that we should be treated like human beings. That is an assertion of one’s self-worth.
Interview with Bradley Beal
After the back-to-back murders of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile, Washington Wizards guard Bradley Beal tweeted out the words Black Lives Matter around two a.m. on July 8, 2016. He was surprised to have been met with an onslaught of All Lives Matter responses as well as criticism about his timing, being that police officers were also killed in Dallas. One person wrote, Lost respect for you, while another wrote, Disgraceful. Beal did not issue a hurried response or a heartfelt apology to any of the All Lives Matter fans; instead, he offered a fervent statement on Instagram.
Beal is not someone who takes this topic lightly or simply gives a knee-jerk reaction. He is about doing the work. He attended one of President Barack Obama’s town hall meetings on the topic. He went not only because he was a Black man, but also because he was a Black athlete. He felt that he needed to hear the firsthand accounts, the experiences, the tragedies, and process everything. He has attended Obama’s speaking engagements before, and he has a desire to become more involved with My Brother’s Keeper, an initiative that aims to couple young men of color with mentors to address racial inequality in America.
Beal doesn’t believe that athlete activism is some type of a fad that will fade away and transition into something new. He believes that as long as injustice prevails, there will be athletes who feel a strong responsibility, and who step up to the plate to use their positions in ways that will push for change. He acknowledges that it may make some people uncomfortable, and may cause him to lose some of his own fans, but that’s a price he is definitely willing to pay for standing up for what is right.
Bradley Beal took time after practice to talk to me about Black Lives Matter and his willingness to speak out despite any criticism that comes his way.
Etan: We interviewed Ted Leonsis, the CEO of the Wizards, and he was saying how proud he was of you when you stood up and spoke your mind after the deaths of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile. When I asked him whether athletes will be reprimanded if they speak out on certain issues or controversial topics, he said that that’s not what they do here with the Wizards. Is that pretty much your experience here, that y
ou have the freedom to speak on whatever it is that is on your heart?
Bradley Beal: Sure, because at the end of the day, we’re still human beings, we’re still a part of society. I think people sometimes get it misconstrued because they see us as athletes, they see us as role models, and they see us as celebrities, and that we are conformed to not speaking. And I will admit, some of us think that there is going to be too much backlash if they do decide to voice their opinion, so they remain silent and just stay out of it completely. But we live in a free country, and yes, our job description reads to play basketball. But at the same time, we are still citizens of the United States, and we are members of society, so why should we not be allowed to voice our opinion? Why should we not have a say in our everyday surroundings? About things that deeply affect our everyday lives?
If there is something that needs to be brought to light, professional athletes have one of the highest platforms to do so . . . What we say holds a lot of weight, so I feel that regardless of what backlash may come our way, or whatever people’s opinions may be . . . you’re voicing your opinion about something that needs to be brought to light as you personally see it . . . And when you say it, you have to stand on it. You can’t be that person who straddles the fence when the criticism and pushback comes your way.
Etan: One of the things I saw after you spoke out was the criticism that immediately followed. And it was really harsh. And as you said, you didn’t back off or retract your statement.
Beal: No, you can’t do that.
Etan: Let me refresh everyone’s memory to exactly what we are talking about before we go any further. After you received the criticism, your exact words were:
So b/c I say Black lives matter: 1. I don’t think ALL LIVES MATTER 2. I’m in favor of cops being killed? Some people are ignorant af. The issue at hand regards my race and I have every right to speak on it! If you don’t like it, it’s a big ass UNFOLLOW button on the top of my page. Saying all lives matter is like saying we all need air to breathe! We all know that!!!! Killing a cop is no better than a cop taking a life! Innocent black lives are being taken by those sworn to protect and serve, not murder! When does it come to an end? And you wonder why people rage? We aren’t getting justice, just more body counts! People are getting sick of this sh*t. So yes, Black Lives Matter!
After I read this, I was applauding in my living room. Because it was so strong and to the point and answered all of the criticism you were receiving, all of the attempts to twist and contort the message of Black Lives Matter, all the ridiculous attempts to divert the issue. But let me ask you this: did the criticism surprise you?
Beal: Honestly, it was just something that I felt needed to be said. I couldn’t just stay quiet and say nothing while I have this tremendous platform. But the criticism didn’t surprise me at all, really. It saddened me to see where we are as a society. You would think that some of the tragedies—like these two with Philando Castile and Alton Sterling—were tragedies that happened decades ago back in the sixties and civil rights era. These are things that we are supposed to be reading about in our history books, not experiencing in this day. So it made me sad reading some of the mentions on Twitter and some of the criticisms, because this makes it clear that some of our mind states are still there, that we haven’t progressed as far as we thought we have.
So in that aspect, you pay attention to it, but then again you don’t, because it’s about what’s right. Regardless of who it may have been, it’s simply not right. That’s not how human beings should be treated, that’s not how those sworn to protect and serve should do their job, and that’s not the way someone should lose their life to never be able to be with their families again. People don’t understand—these aren’t just cases or hashtags, these are actual people with children and families. Little daughters who will never see their father again. If that doesn’t bother you at least a little, then something is wrong with you.
Etan: Definitely agree. If we were talking about the Holocaust and we said the lives of the Jews mattered, I don’t think people would answer back with, “No, no, no. Not just the Jews—all lives matter.”
Beal: Yeah, it’s ridiculous. When people heard me say that Black Lives Matter, they just immediately responded with . . . All Lives Matter. And you can’t even begin to explain how heartless that comeback is. And I like that you made that comparison, because people need to see it in those terms. That would make people see how absolutely ridiculous the criticism is. Well, it should make them see it. And these killings by the police are on TV now, you see video clips of it, where you can see clear as day what happened. Why wouldn’t we say anything, but even more so, why wouldn’t the entire country be in an uproar? Why are you okay with what you have just seen? Why doesn’t it affect you at all? Why does your heart not ache like mine does after seeing this? Why would you not feel the urge to do anything to help this situation? Why would you not feel sympathy for the people who are going through this, but attempt to use that moment to proclaim that your life, which is not being taken away, is just as important as the people’s lives who are being taken away?
Etan: I do a lot of panel discussions and speaking to youth across the country, and I tell them that no matter what they are seeing in the media, with every police shooting, every not-guilty verdict, that their life does in fact matter. And a lot of the people who have those criticisms don’t understand staring out into a sea of hundreds of young people’s faces—Black young people’s faces, girls and boys—and have them look at you like you’re telling them something they’ve never heard before, or like they have a hard time believing their lives actually matter. Have you experienced that yourself?
Beal: Unfortunately, I know exactly what you are saying and have experienced that myself. That’s why I tell people, and other athletes as well, when they ask, “Do you feel that it is an obligation to be involved, or to speak out to raise awareness, or to speak at schools to young people?” I wouldn’t say it’s an obligation, but you should do it. Granted, everybody made their own way to the NBA, and everybody has their own life to take care of, but at the end of the day, we are still role models to kids. Some kids will only hear that positive message that their life matters from us. Imagine that, having the power to be able to instill a personal pride in a young person who didn’t have that before you spoke to them?
That’s a great power and responsibility to have. Us as athletes, we have the biggest platforms, especially NBA players, because we don’t have helmets on like the NFL players, so people know you, they know your face, they know your product, they know your brand, and they know your life. You can relate to them on a level that somebody else may not be able to. My mother used to always tell me that as a youngin. You don’t listen to Mom all the time, but when somebody else tells you the exact same thing that your mom says, it kind of registers with you. So I tell players all the time, it’s always good for them to hear it from someone else, especially in the position we are in, because what we say holds so much weight, it will stick with the kids. They will look and say, “Man, you had to deal with the same things that I am dealing with? You had people make you feel like your life isn’t important too?”
Interview with Swin Cash
I got my nine-year-old daughter Imani involved in one of the Black Lives Matter panel discussions I moderated in November 2016. I wanted her to sing a song for the event’s opening because I thought her beautiful voice would really set the tone, but I also wanted her to get a chance to hear panelists like Swin Cash, Ilyasah Shabazz, Emerald Snipes, and Erica Garner. Swin discussed how the entire WNBA responded to the deaths of Philando Castile and Alton Sterling, how the league took a stance together and decided that they were going to be agents for change. Imani was so inspired I can’t even put it into words.
Now, I have brought Imani to hear me speak before, and I can tell when she is paying attention and when she isn’t. This occasion, the entire time Swin Cash was speaking, Imani was locked in and engaged. She listened int
ensely as Swin explained how women were being subjected to crimes by the police just like men were, but that it wasn’t being publicized as much. Imani heard the names Sandra Bland, Rekia Boyd, and Korryn Gaines, who I had discussed with her before. But she also learned some new names, like Symone Marshall, Gynnya McMillen, Darnesha Harris, Yvette Smith, and Malissa Williams.
At one point, Swin was asked how they were able to get all of the WNBA players to participate, both Black and white, in contrast to the NFL, which at the time barely had any players—definitely no white ones—supporting Kaepernick. Swin talked about how important it was to do things together and how the WNBA at first tried to break their unity by imposing fines. She talked about how much stronger they were together and how sometimes women can have issues working with each other. She mentioned mean girls that exist in every school across America, which Imani definitely related to. And Swin stressed that their lives mattered, no matter what they have been told by society, no matter what they have been shown on TV or heard on the radio. The WNBA was able to prove that when women come together, they can do something special and show everyone that they do in fact matter. Imani wasn’t the only one hanging on her every word—every student in that audience, especially the females, were focused on everything Swin was saying. Hearing all of this from a woman made it even more powerful for them.