by Etan Thomas
Etan: What was the team’s reaction to you wearing the shirt? Did they reprimand you or tell you to stop?
Rose: No. Honestly, all of it went under the radar. Nobody even questioned me about it in Chicago. Honestly, there was a lot going on there at the time, and I was kind of feuding with the media and they were trying to throw everything against me in Chicago, so I don’t know if that diverted their attention or what, but I get that question all the time: “What did the Bulls say to you?” But honestly, they didn’t say anything at all.
Etan: Joakim, from your perspective, what was the team’s reaction to Derrick wearing the I Can’t Breathe shirt?
Joakim Noah: I was really proud of him. That was really a very strong and powerful and courageous statement. A lot of other players followed in his footsteps, but he was the first one to do it, and that took a lot of courage. It’s not easy to take a stand like that in public, and with all of the scrutiny and the public pressure of playing basketball and staying focused on the game and having to deal with real serious issues on a day-to-day basis.
Etan: Definitely. And what do you think we can do to help this situation, help the community as a whole?
Noah: To me, it’s just investment. There’s gotta be more investment in the community, because society has failed our youth. We need more programs, drug programs, investment in education, I could keep going. And the deeper you get into it and examine the situation and the problem . . . the more unreal it got, because you could see how a lot of these kids are also being used. A lot of people are exploiting them in order to big-up themselves. And that’s really hard to see . . . That hurts because a lot of these kids are hopeless.
Etan: What was your response when you heard Donald Trump threaten that he would send the feds to Chicago?
Noah: I think that before we start talking about sending the feds to Chicago, we need to start talking about these gun laws. We have to really reflect and say, “Are we as a country doing everything we can to stop these kids killing kids?” Because that’s what it is: it’s kids killing kids. Are we putting in the proper investment in trying to stop this before we send in the feds? Because it is, at the end of the day, a war zone.
Etan: Do you think these kids’ lives matter at all to most politicians and decision makers?
Noah: Clearly not. People are making decisions without having any inclination as to what these kids are actually going through. When you talk about ways to stop the violence, it’s not just punishing everyone, or sending in a tank. There are so many other things you can do. Investing in these community centers will help stop the violence. Investing in programs for these kids will stop the violence. Keeping these kids active and keeping them on a positive route and creating jobs so that these kids don’t feel hopeless. Some kids are hooked on drugs and self-medicating themselves to numb the pain of the situation they are in . . . And they know that’s what’s happening. Honestly, the more I started doing with my foundation and with the kids, the more depressing it got. Kids you talk to and work with one day, and the next day they’ve been killed, murdered, sometimes by the police, sometimes by another kid. That’s the madness that’s going on in Chicago and something has got to change.
Rose: They closed like 150 schools, and a lot of schools they are turning into charter schools, and they are combining schools, they are purposely creating a friction in the school by putting rival gangs in the same school together after they decided to close the schools they were going to. There is no other way to describe it but as a setup, because there is no way that they don’t know exactly what they are doing. As far as the martial law that Trump is talking about, there is no way that they should even be thinking about doing that. The people need opportunities to get jobs. They need centers for kids to go to after school.
In Chicago, we don’t have opportunities. Unless you play ball like me or rap, your opportunities are really limited, so if you don’t give someone an opportunity, what do you expect them to do? How are they supposed to eat and feed their children and live and survive? They created the situation that Chicago is in today. They took away opportunities and closed schools and created this environment where people don’t have any hope. What do you think they are going to do if they have no hope? Then, after you created that environment, you wanna talk about sending in the feds to, what, finish the job of the situation you created? You know how they are going to react to that. You know what’s going to happen. They not gonna take that lying down. And of course y’all got bigger guns, they got a lot of guns, it’s literally a war zone, but they don’t have tanks and missiles and drones. I couldn’t imagine what that would look like if they decided to send in the feds—that’s just not the answer to solve this problem you created.
Etan: I definitely agree. Joakim, can you tell me about the work you do with your foundation?
Noah: Noah’s Ark Foundation. Giving kids an outlet—our programs are about expressing yourself through arts and sport. We have basketball tournaments we call the “peace tournaments,” bring kids from different neighborhoods, mix up the teams, have them actually playing on the same team with people who are supposed to be their sworn enemy. Having to pass to them and celebrate a victory with them. We have some of the OGs come and talk to them and spend time with them. It’s not just about the basketball or the tournament, but a way to teach, inspire, and show them the right way. Show them the way that will save their lives, and letting them know how important their lives are.
Etan: Talk about your movement to stop the violence.
Noah: You look at the police brutality—it’s depressing. I feel horrible about it just like anyone who has seen the Eric Garner video should also feel terrible. Nobody should go out like that. Nobody! I think for me, the work can’t stop, the effort can’t stop. Does it seem like we are losing the fight? Yes, it definitely does. But we can’t give up. These are kids, we really have to keep that in mind, and a lot of them are really going through some of the most horrific things imaginable. You talk to some of the kids, and you can see it in their eyes. It’s like they have post-traumatic stress disorder.
Etan: How do you convince those kids that their lives matter?
Noah: My youth coach, Tyrone Green, is the one who changed my life. He wasn’t a celebrity who came there to speak to me. He actually showed me love and showed me that he cared and took the time to guide me and nurture me. Without him, I wouldn’t even be here right now. He was like my other father. He always told me I shouldn’t go back to France or travel in the summer, that I should stay with him in the hood. He molded me . . . and that’s what changed my life. I’m telling you, if it weren’t for him, I don’t know where I would be.
What I realized with a lot of the kids who are going through these issues in the neighborhood—it’s not about a message. These kids get preached on and preached on and preached on. They don’t need anyone telling them they need to do this and they need to do that, and they definitely don’t need any fake people coming to speak to them to make themselves look good . . . They are going to see right through you in a matter of seconds and be able to tell if you’re genuine . . . or just trying to make yourself look good. That’s how they feel loved—not so much by words but by actions, and so that’s what I try to do for them: show them that they are important and that their lives matter. And then I encourage them to look after the younger kids, and to show them that they matter. Again, not just tell them, but to show them that someone cares whether you live or die and is willing to invest time and energy and resources into you, because that’s how important your life is.
What you doin’ with your son’s AAU team, keep doin’ that, man. That stuff makes a difference. Believe me. It really could mean the difference between someone making it in life and someone ending up dead or in jail . . . Keep it all the way real with them. Don’t sugarcoat nothing. So much can be changed when people know that someone cares.
Chapter 11
Having “the Talk” WITH Young Female Athletes Matters
/> I have always had a passion for speaking to young men. It started when my mother used to have me speak to the students in her class. I would share my experiences playing ball at Syracuse, and they would listen solely for the reason that I was an athlete at a major university. That was my introduction to the power that athletes have to influence the youth. I continued speaking all through college and during my career in the NBA. I would speak at schools, prisons, community centers, churches. I wrote my book Fatherhood: Rising to the Ultimate Challenge, I was appointed to President Obama’s “Fatherhood and Mentoring Initiative,” I worked with My Brother’s Keeper, and I began appearing on celebrity panels for young men across the country in an effort to inspire, encourage, teach, prepare, and educate. It became something I did nonstop.
But then my daughters Imani and Baby Sierra started getting older and asking questions, just as my son Malcolm did when he was younger. Imani, at nine years old, heard people talking about Sandra Bland and Korryn Gaines at school, and she started to have questions. And just as I had with Malcolm, I now had to have “the talk” with my daughter. I still just wanted them to be playing with their dolls and watching cartoons. In many ways, I naturally felt like I needed to shelter and protect my daughters while I was preparing and teaching my son. That was the absolute wrong approach, and I’m glad my wife kept reminding me of the importance of preparing my daughters the same way I was preparing my son.
I took my daughter to a Black Lives Matter panel discussion, where she heard Swin Cash, Emerald Snipes, and Erica Garner, along with John Starks, Shaun King, Tiny Archibald, and Jerome “JYD” Williams. All of the speakers were fantastic, but it was the female speakers that my daughter connected with most. When Emerald and Erica told their stories of dealing with the death of their father, Imani listened intensely, locked into everything that was going on. I could actually see her being empowered. She listened to Swin talk about Black Lives Matter, and about Philando Castile and Alton Sterling, and then Swin talked about all of the Black women who have lost their lives to the police and may have not gotten the coverage the men have received. She told the audience about Sandra Bland and detailed the story in a way that showed what young Black girls in particular were going to have to deal with growing up, as far as their attitude being a threat. This hit home for so many of the young Black girls there, I am suspecting for the same reason that it hit home for Imani, and that is because she has an attitude. She is quick-witted. Imani is so much like me, sometimes it’s almost scary.
Imani likes to be heard. She likes to be able to get her point across before she is disciplined. And as long as she can say what she needs to get off her chest, she is okay with dealing with whatever punishment comes her way. I am able to reason with Imani and the entire process works for her. The problem is, nobody on earth other than me is going to do that with her. Not her teachers, definitely not her grandmothers on both sides (ha ha), but also not her mother, not her aunts, not her Sunday school teachers at church—nobody. So when she heard the story of Sandra Bland, it resonated with her.
“Young Black girls are being looked at as a threat because of their attitudes. You have to prepare to win the war and not be focused on the immediate battle that you are NOT going to win.” Swin brilliantly let those words hang in the air for a long time. She said we have to think strategically, fully evaluate the situation, and prepare for the bigger war. Now, coming from Swin, these girls heard the message. Coming from a man, it probably would have been offensive. I can say that to young men, but I’m not so sure I can convey that same message to young women. But it’s the same message: they can’t do what they see white women do. I have seen white women cuss the police out, tell them they will have their badge—but we simply cannot do that. The main objective, again, is for them to get home safely.
After that, Swin proceeded to explain what the WNBA does collectively to show their Black Girl Magic. She talked about how they were fed up with the killings by the police and how they wanted to do something about it. She explained how the players looked after each other. How after the WNBA said it was going to fine them for waging their protest, the veterans told the younger players that they would pay their fines and not to worry about the financial part. And every young woman in that audience, my daughter included, was inspired.
A few months later, I took Imani back to Canaan Baptist Church, where I was hosting a panel that included Chamique Holdsclaw, a former WNBA rookie of the year who has played with the Los Angeles Sparks and the Atlanta Dream. My daughter heard Chamique talk about peer pressure and what it means to be self-confident and self-assured no matter what anyone else says about you. Chamique spoke about how proud she was to see the WNBA as a league stand up for Alton Sterling and Philando Castile. Once again, my daughter was completely inspired. As were all of the other young women in the audience, and they were inspired in a way that just wouldn’t have happened if it were a man speaking, no matter who he was. It was amazing to see girls raising their hands during the question-and-answer session, sharing intimate details about struggles they were going through. They talked about being bullied, being picked on, but then Chamique started talking about mental health. She related her own struggles—she told the entire story of everything she had gone through. She discussed her depression, her shame, putting up the facade that she had it all together; she talked about what it was like to see the media turn on you, to go from receiving all of the praise and glory to becoming a villain.
I watched the young women look on in amazement, because of course almost all young girls feel peer pressure. I told the audience that the NBA has finally instituted programs dealing with mental health, and that Chamique wrote a powerful book called Breaking Through: Beating the Odds Shot After Shot. In addition, there is an amazing documentary called Mind/Game: The Unquiet Journey of Chamique Holdsclaw, in which she tells her story to the world, because she knew that there were other people who were dealing with the exact same thing and she didn’t want anyone to feel alone in that. She wanted to use her situation and her experience to inspire, and she has done just that.
I explained how in athletics, including the NBA, there is still a long way to go in the area of mental health. In most sports, it’s thought that you are supposed to be mentally tough. I told them that Chamique had the courage to be able to come forward and be a catalyst for change. Many teams have now created programs that address mental health. I personally met the psychiatrist recently hired by the Oklahoma City Thunder; her sole purpose is to deal with the mental health of the athletes. Various players, including Metta World Peace, Michael Sweetney, Serena Williams, Terry Bradshaw, Jerry West, and Ronda Rousey, are now talking about their depression and their mental health issues—all of this started with Chamique. She has become an activist and advocate for others, highlighting the routine discrimination of people dealing with mental health challenges—the shame, the ridicule, the bullying, the stigma. She has changed the way so many people now look at mental health, and I applaud her for having the courage to do so.
Chamique Holdsclaw is such an inspiration in so many ways. Her willingness to be an activist for mental health is really courageous.
Interview with Chamique Holdsclaw
Etan: What gave you the courage to be able to come forward about your mental health issues and struggles?
Chamique Holdsclaw: I thought about the fact that this was something that I really struggled with for a long time. Something that was debilitating. I was faced with a situation where I thought about taking my life and I just felt that it was time to stand up. For so long I worried about what other people thought, and in the sports culture you’re taught to be mentally tough and mentally unbreakable and I didn’t want anyone to think that I was weak. That’s like the ultimate knock on an athlete to say that they are mentally weak. So I hid it. And that just made me sicker and sicker, and of course one thing led to another, but as soon as I opened my mouth, I realized that a lot of other people were dealing with the same thing. I was
really proud that I eventually became brave enough to take those steps, because people started sharing their stories with me and in a sense it helped me heal.
Etan: My mother used to always tell me that when you overcome something, it’s not for you; it’s for somebody else and it becomes your testimony.
Holdsclaw: Definitely, and it’s healing . . . As I have grown into an adult, I see that the greatest gift I have been given is a talent, and that talent has allowed me to get people to pay attention. It’s just a tool, basketball is a tool. And now with the platform . . . what was I going to do with it? I decided to be open and to be honest and to be a positive light on these kids.
Etan: You sat on a panel in Harlem with me at Canaan Baptist Church and I saw firsthand the way all of the young ladies in the audience identified with you.
Holdsclaw: It makes me feel really good, to be honest, because you see what your purpose is. It’s like I have an out-of-body experience while I am talking to them . . . I’m talking to them physically, but I’m really talking to me, if that makes sense. And I’m telling them the things that I wish somebody would have told me. I know how being a young girl . . . at times we put on this mask and this brave face, but we are very fragile and very sensitive creatures. So I just try to pull back those layers. I know when I was younger, and things weren’t going right, I pretended. I said, “No, I’m okay, I’m good,” and eventually that catches up with you and everything just explodes. So it’s always important to address that and really be honest with young people and give them a safe environment to express how they are feeling.