I have been asked what I know about my former husband’s criminal activities. On 19th April 1986 I was interviewed by officers of the Central Midlands police and made a long statement to them about my former husband’s involvement in crime. That statement was made at my suggestion and entirely voluntarily.
My interview with the officers was tape-recorded. I have been shown a typed transcript of that interview. I have read that transcript and it is a correct and accurate transcript of the interview. I now produce it as Exhibit GMS/1.
Signed: G. Simpson
*
That was all. Nothing at all about how she came to shop her ex-husband and his pals six years on from the robbery.
GMS/1 was in a box of exhibited documents, a fat bundle of dog-eared typescript. The beginning should have explained how the interview came about, but it didn’t.
*
Watters: This interview is being recorded in an interview room at Belston police station. Present in the room are myself, Detective Inspector Watters, Detective Chief Inspector Hawkins and PC Stephenson who is in charge of the recording equipment. Also present is Mrs Glenys Simpson. Now, Mrs Simpson, just so we can have things clear on the tape, you are present at this interview voluntarily — entirely of your own free will?
Mrs Simpson: Yes.
Watters: And you are the former wife of William Arnold Simpson?
Mrs Simpson: Yes, that’s right.
Watters: And your date of birth is … ?
Mrs Simpson: 9th October 1942.
Watters: And your former husband’s date of birth is … ?
Mrs Simpson: 5th June 1939.
Watters: And you wish to make a statement detailing what you know about the criminal activities of your former husband?
Mrs Simpson: Yes, that’s right. I think it’s time that all this came out in the open, all that Billy and his mates did.
Watters: And nobody’s promised you any reward and nobody’s threatened you? This is entirely of your own free will?
Mrs Simpson: That’s right.
Hawkins: Right, Glenys, can you tell us a bit about the background, a bit about your marriage to Billy Simpson?
Mrs Simpson: Well, we married in 1960 or ‘61, I forget which. When we were first married Billy was working at Bowcotts Electrical. He was very clever with electrical things.
Hawkins: Where did you live then, Glenys?
Mrs Simpson: We lived with Billy’s parents, out in Bellsich Road, at first. Then we got a council house in Eastern Avenue. We stayed there until we split up.
Hawkins: And who were his friends at that time?
Mrs Simpson: Well, there was people from Bowcotts that he worked with, and he went fishing a lot. There was people he fished with, but there was a little group that he was always knocking about with.
Hawkins: And who were they?
Mrs Simpson: There was Peter Grady …
Hawkins: How did he come to know Grady?
Mrs Simpson: Well, he was from Bowcotts, Peter. He was a shop steward there and Billy was keen on the union so I think that’s how they met.
Hawkins: And who else was in this little group of Billy’s friends?
Mrs Simpson: There was Peter Grady and■■■■■ ■■■■■. He wasthe landlord of the■■■■■ ■■■■■at the time and Billy and the others used to drink in there. Then there was Alan Walton. Alan had a lorry and did haulage. He used to drink in the■■■■■ ■■■■■, too.
Hawkins: And where did they meet, mainly?
Mrs Simpson: Well, mostly they either went to the■■■■■ ■■■■■ or they met at our house. They used to come back from the pub and Billy would take them into our spare room upstairs. He had a sort of workshop up there where he fixed tellies and things.
Hawkins: And were you present when they met at your home? Did you know what they discussed?
Mrs Simpson: Oh, no. Billy wouldn’t have me around with his pals. He always took them straight upstairs. All I had to do was take them more beer or tea when they wanted it.
Hawkins: And how did they let you know if they wanted more beer or a cup of tea, Glenys?
Mrs Simpson: Well, there was this thing in the spare room, like a sort of little telephone.
Hawkins: What was that for?
Mrs Simpson: Well, that room was our babby’s room when she was alive. Billy fixed this thing up then, so that we could hear if she cried. It was like a little box at each end with a wire in between. He put one in that room and one in the living-room downstairs.
Hawkins: How did it work exactly?
Mrs Simpson: There was a button on each of the boxes and a speaker. If you pressed the button it buzzed at the other box, but if you just switched the box on you could hear noises at the other end. It was so we could listen to the babby without going upstairs.
Hawkins: Let me get this right. Billy installed an intercom in the living-room with the other end in the spare bedroom — his workshop, where he used to meet with his mates? Is that right?
Mrs Simpson: That’s right.
Hawkins: And this intercom could be switched on from either end so that you could listen to sounds at the other end?
Mrs Simpson: That’s it, yes.
Hawkins: And that’s what Billy used to give you messages to bring him and his pals more tea or beer when they were in the spare room?
Stephenson: Sorry, Mrs Simpson, but you’ll have to give a spoken answer. The tape can’t record nods.
Mrs Simpson: Oh, yes, of course. Yes, that’s right. He used to push the buzzer and ask for tea or beer or sandwiches.
Hawkins: I don’t suppose you cared very much for being left out and having to do all the fetching and carrying and brewing up?
Mrs Simpson: No, I bloody didn’t. Sometimes when Billy brought them in during the day I used to go out, just so as not to have to run his bloody messages like a skivvy.
Hawkins: How often did they get together in Billy’s workshop?
Mrs Simpson: Well, at first it was just once or twice a week then there was the big strike at Bowcotts and they was in there every afternoon and most nights. Like I said, Peter Grady was a shop steward. He was a Communist, they say he started the strike. By then Billy was on the union committee. They’d go to meetings down at the■■■■■ ■■■■■, then they’d come back to our place and settle down in the spare room for hours on end.
Hawkins: When was the Bowcotts strike?
Mrs Simpson: 1976. Right through that winter into the next year. Then when it was over, Billy and Grady and the other union men was shoved out as soon as Bowcotts could. After that he never had a job again.
Hawkins: So in 1976 and ‘77 they spent a lot of time in Billy’s workshop and you think they were talking about the strike at Bowcotts?
Mrs Simpson: That’s it, yes.
Hawkins: After the strike was over, as you say, Billy and Pete Grady lost their jobs at Bowcotts. Did they spend much time in the workshop then?
Mrs Simpson: Oh, when they hadn’t got no jobs to go to, they was always in there, day and night.
Hawkins: And did you wonder what it was they were talking about now the strike was over?
Mrs Simpson: I did.
Hawkins: And did you find out?
Mrs Simpson: Yes, I did in the end.
Hawkins: How did that come about?
Mrs Simpson: Well, they was all upstairs one day and I was downstairs, doing a bit of tidying in the living-room. I must have caught the switch on that telephone box thing …
Watters: The intercom to the workshop?
Mrs Simpson: That’s right. I must have knocked the switch because it came on and I could hear their voices coming through it.
Hawkins: And what were they talking about?
Mrs Simpson: Well, I was going to switch it off again, but I heard Peter Grady talking about guns.
Hawkins: Did that surprise you?
Mrs Simpson: Not really. He was always going on about guns. He was always saying a
s we’d never have a decent government in this country by voting them in. He used to say that we’d have to get guns and change the government by force.
Hawkins: And is that the kind of thing that he was saying when you accidentally switched the intercom on?
Mrs Simpson: Well, no. I could hear that he was actually talking about collecting some guns from somewhere to do a job.
*
I had never liked the late Hawkins; he was always a great deal too flash and arrogant for my taste, but I had to admire this interview. It certainly wasn’t an off-the-cuff session with someone who just wandered into a police station and wanted to unburden themselves. Hawkins evidently knew exactly what Glenys Simpson had to say and was very carefully making sure that she said it in the right order. I was about to ask Sheila for another Gaelic coffee when I had a guilty recollection of Glenys Simpson ferrying trays of tea and cans of beer up the stairs to the back bedroom. I didn’t know whether she was telling the truth or not, but I fetched my own coffee before turning back to the transcript.
*
Hawkins: Did Grady actually talk about a ‘job’?
Mrs Simpson: Yes, that’s what he said. I didn’t understand at first.
Watters: But you carried on listening?
Mrs Simpson: Well, yes. It was the talk about guns and I wanted to know what they wanted guns for.
Hawkins: And did you find out?
Mrs Simpson: Peter Grady was saying that he could get the guns they’d need …
Watters: Did he say where the guns would come from?
Mrs Simpson: No. He only said that he’d got a contact and he could get the guns they’d need.
Hawkins: Was that all that was said about the guns?
Mrs Simpson: Yes. After that they started talking about where and when they were going to do whatever it was.
Hawkins: And where was that?
Mrs Simpson: I think that one was a payroll van in Erdington, wasn’t it?
Watters: You’ll have to tell us what you remember, Mrs Simpson, but there was a robbery on a payroll van in Erdington.
Hawkins: And you believe that was what they were discussing the first time you overheard them?
Mrs Simpson: Yes, I think that was the one.
Hawkins: After that time, were there other occasions when you used the intercom to listen in on Billy and his mates?
Mrs Simpson: Oh, after that I did it regular.
Watters: And it was always the same group —your husband, Grady,■■■■■ and Walton?
Mrs Simpson: That’s right.
Hawkins: Tell us about some of the other things you overheard.
*
Hang on a minute, Mr Hawkins! What about the Erdington job? He’d just leapt right over it. There were no details in the transcript apart from the fact that the group had discussed the job and Grady had said he could get the guns from a contact. Why hadn’t they asked about Simpson’s movements on the day of the robbery? Why hadn’t they asked any more about what she overheard? When and where the van was to be stopped? Who was actually going to do it? Where were the vehicles they used going to come from?
All Hawkins had was a bare outline and he hadn’t paused to fill it in before pressing on for further information about other jobs. I stopped reading and riffled through the thick bundle to see if Erdington was ever mentioned again. It wasn’t.
16.
I read on. Glenys Simpson had claimed to have heard her husband and his mates planning about a dozen major robberies. In each case the response of Hawkins and his team was the same. Once she’d mentioned where the job was they pressed on to the next one. Not once did they pause to collect any detail from her that could be used to tie Billy Simpson and his pals to any of the crimes. Not until they reached Belstone Lane, that is.
*
Hawkins: You overheard mention of the Mantons van?
Mrs Simpson: Yes. They was going to do it on a Saturday night and I remember thinking that Saturday night was a funny time for a payroll van to be about.
Hawkins: And what did they say about the Mantons van?
Mrs Simpson: They said as they should do it in hot weather, ‘cos it would be carrying a lot more. Peter said he’d find the guns. Alan and■■■■■ were going to fix up a van and a car …
Watters: They said a van and a car. That was part of their plan — to use a van and a car?
Mrs Simpson: Yes. Alan said he knew where there was a van they could use and scrap it afterwards.■■■■■said he’d have no trouble getting a car.
Hawkins: Do you remember the evening of the Belstone Lane robbery, Glenys?
Mrs Simpson: I’ll never forget it. Billy went out in the afternoon, about three. I thought I’d go out later, for a drink with a neighbour of mine. We went to the Miners Arms and heard it on the telly, how they’d killed one chap and injured another. I was really sick, I can tell you. I can remember sitting in that pub and there was people saying as they should bring back hanging and I sat there thinking, ‘My husband done that! My Billy and his mates! They ain’t just thieves — they’m murderers!’
Hawkins: And what did you do then?
Mrs Simpson: I went home at pubshut. They was all there — the four of them. They’d parked a van on the waste ground behind and carried stuff up the gulley into the house.
Watters: Did you see the van, Mrs Simpson?
Mrs Simpson: Ah, it were a scruffy old dark blue transit. I don’t know what make it would have been.
Watters: And all four of them were in the house?
Mrs Simpson: Yes, all of them.
Hawkins: How were they dressed?
Mrs Simpson: Well, you know how hot the weather had been, but they was all wearing jackets, all dark jackets.
Watters: You said they carried stuff from the van — what sort of stuff?
Mrs Simpson: It was all there. There was guns, there was balaclava things, black ones, and there was cash bags all over the table. They was counting the money out when I come in.
Hawkins: What happened when you came in?
Mrs Simpson: Well, I couldn’t believe it. They’d gone out and shot a man dead and they’d come back to my house. I yelled at Billy. I said, ‘Do you know you’ve killed a man, you bastard!’ He said, ‘He ain’t dead, either of them.’ I said, ‘It was on the telly. You’ve killed one man and maybe another!’
Hawkins: What did he say?
Mrs Simpson: He said, ‘It went wrong. It weren’t our fault. Now shut up and help get this money sorted.’
Hawkins: And what did you do?
Mrs Simpson: I dain’t have no choice, did I? I helped them sort the money out. Then Alan and■■■■■ took the cash bags and the dark jackets and the balaclava things, to get rid of them and the van, and Peter took the guns.
Watters: What happened to the money?
Mrs Simpson: Billy had that. He made me help him hide it.
Watters: Where was it hidden?
Mrs Simpson: We had an old shed at the back, Billy used to keep his fishing stuff there and that. It had a dirt floor. We went out there and he shovelled up a bit of the floor in the shed and there was one of those, like old-fashioned metal signs, like they used to have on shops, and underneath that was a hole. He put all the money in the hole and put that metal sheet on top of it and put the dirt back. Then we trampled it down and he spilled oil and things on it so it looked like it hadn’t been dug up.
Hawkins: Do you know what Billy did with the money afterwards?
Mrs Simpson: No. He never told me. He just said as it warn’t in the shed any more.
Watters: When was that? When did he say that?
Mrs Simpson: Only about a day or two after. After the police had been.
Hawkins: Right, the police came. Do you remember when that was, Glenys?
Mrs Simpson: Do I remember? Course I do! It was the next day — the Sunday, late in the morning. There was masses of them.
Watters: What happened when they came?
Mrs Simps
on: Well, they said to Billy as they knew he’d planned the job and they thought he’d done it as well. They asked him about his whereabouts on the Saturday night.
Watters: What did he say?
Mrs Simpson: He was one of them (indicating Det/Insp. Watters). He can tell you what went on.
Hawkins: Yes, Glenys, but this has to be what you remember.
Mrs Simpson: Oh, right. Well, they searched the house, every inch, top to bottom, and they kept on at us about where we was on the Saturday evening. Billy said as he was in a pub in Wednesbury with his mates. I said what was true, that I had gone out for a drink with me neighbour. Billy had told me to say that he came home alone, after I got home, so J told them that.
Hawkins: But that wasn’t true. Why did you tell the officers what wasn’t true?
Mrs Simpson: I hadn’t no choice, had I? Billy had killed a bloke. I dain’t know what he might do to me if I spoke out.
Hawkins: Right, you followed his instructions out of fear. Is there anything more you can recall about the Belstone Lane robbery?
Mrs Simpson: No, no. That’s all I can remember. Sometimes I wish I could forget.
*
That was all, but it was enough for Hawkins’ purposes. She had Billy and his pals planning the job, obtaining the vehicles and the guns, coming back afterwards with the loot, the weapons, the clothing, the van, getting rid of the evidence, hiding the loot, and Billy instructing her to say he came home alone. It was a first-class basis on which to go out and arrest the four — if she was telling the truth.
17.
‘It all looks phoney to me,’ Sheila said, after she’d looked over the transcript.
‘Why’s that?’
‘They’re putting on a show for the tape. She’s been rehearsed.’
‘You think so?’
‘Sure of it, cobber. She and Hawkins have been over what she’s going to say. Then he presents her story, leading her into it the right way. Watters is the technician who nails down the little details. It’s a phoney. And what about Saffary?’
‘How do you mean?’
‘Well, isn’t it funny he wasn’t there?’
Robbery with Malice Page 7