by Mike Sacks
AND HERE'S THE
KICKER
CONVERSATIONS WITH 25 TOP
HUMOR WRITERS ON THEIR CRAFT
EXTENDED EDITION
MIKE SACKS
And Here's the Kicker. © 2009 by Mike Sacks. Manufactured in the United States of America. All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced in any form or by any electronic or mechanical means, including information storage and retrieval systems, without permission in writing from the publisher, except by a reviewer, who may quote brief passages in a review. Published by Writer's Digest Books, an imprint of F+W Media, Inc., 4700 East Galbraith Road, Cincinnati, Ohio 45236. (800) 289-0963. First edition.
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All interview introductions by Mike Sacks and Eric Spitznagel.
Library of Congress Cataloging-in-Publication Data
Library of Congress Cataloging-in-Publication Data
Sacks, Mike.
And here's the kicker : conversations with 21 top humor writers on their craft / by Mike Sacks.
p. cm.
ISBN 978-1-58297-505-4 (pbk. : alk. paper)
ISBN 13: 978-1-58297-988-5 (EPUB)
1. Wit and humor — Authorship. 2. Comedy — Authorship. 3. Humorists, American — Interviews. I. Title.
PN6149.A88S23 2009
808.7 — dc22
2008045611
Edited by Lauren Mosko
Designed by Claudean Wheeler
Cover and Illustrations by Tae Won Yu
Production coordinated by Mark Griffin
DEDICATION
For Kate and Daphne
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
A hearty thank-you to …
My parents
Ellie and John
Shimmy
To each and every one of the writers — you know who you are (hopefully)
Lauren Mosko, for the complete edit and for her kind ways
S.P. Nix, for his top-notch copyediting, fact-checking, and line-editing skills
Eric Spitznagel, for his tremendous contributions to all of the introductions
Sharon Festinger, Holly Morris, Adam Nadler, and Alana Quirk, for their superior editing skills
Tae Won Yu, for his design and illustrations
Gabe Sanders, Amelia Kahaney, and Ezra
Ted Travelstead and Julie Wright and Skittles
Steve Wilson and Erin Mayes
Austin Merrill and Gina Rhodes
Connell Barrett
Jason Eaton, Todd Jackson, and Ian Lendler
Laura Griffin, Scott Jacobson, Todd Levin, Jason Roeder, John Warner, and Teddy Wayne
Jason Cronic
Merrill M.
David S.
Table of Contents
Foreword, by Adam McKay
Afterword to the First Foreword, by Jim Windolf
Introduction
BUCK HENRY (Get Smart, The Graduate, Catch-22, To Die For)
STEPHEN MERCHANT (The Office, Extras)
Quick and Painless Advice for the Aspiring Humor Writer, Part One: Getting Hired as a Sitcom Writer
HAROLD RAMIS (National Lampoon's Animal House, Caddyshack, Groundhog Day)
Quick and Painless Advice for the Aspiring Humor Writer, Part Two: Getting Humor Published in Magazines
DAN MAZER (Da Ali G Show, Borat, Bruno)
Quick and Painless Advice for the Aspiring Humor Writer, Part Three: Finding a Literary Agent for Your Humor Book Idea
MERRILL MARKOE (Late Night with David Letterman)
PAUL FEIG (Freaks and Geeks, Kick Me, Superstud)
IRVING BRECHER (The Wizard of Oz, At the Circus, Go West, Meet Me in St. Louis)
BOB ODENKIRK (The Ben Stiller Show, Mr. Show with Bob and David)
TODD HANSON (The Onion)
MARSHALL BRICKMAN (The Tonight Show, Annie Hall, Manhattan, The Muppet Show)
Quick and Painless Advice for the Aspiring Humor Writer, Part Four: Getting Your Humor Piece Published in The New Yorker
MITCH HURWITZ (Arrested Development)
Quick and Painless Advice for the Aspiring Humor Writer, Part Five: Acquiring an Agent or Manager for Your Script
DAVID SEDARIS (Naked, Me Talk Pretty One Day)
GEORGE MEYER (Army Man, The Simpsons)
AL JAFFEE (Mad's Fold-In, “Snappy Answers to Stupid Questions”)
ALLISON SILVERMAN (The Daily Show, Late Night with Conan O'Brien, The Colbert Report)
Quick and Painless Advice for the Aspiring Humor Writer, Part Six: Getting a Job as a Writer for Late-Night Television
ROBERT SMIGEL (Saturday Night Live, Late Night with Conan O'Brien, “TV Funhouse”)
DAVE BARRY (Dave Barry's Guide to Marriage and/or Sex)
DICK CAVETT (The Tonight Show, The Dick Cavett Show)
LARRY WILMORE (In Living Color, The Bernie Mac Show, The Daily Show, The Office)
JACK HANDEY (Saturday Night Live, The New Yorker)
LARRY GELBART (Caesar's Hour, M*A*S*H, Tootsie)
Quick and Painless Advice for the Aspiring Humor Writer, Part Seven: Getting Your Comic Book or Graphic Novel Published
ROZ CHAST (The New Yorker)
Quick and Painless Advice for the Aspiring Humor Writer, Part Eight: Getting a Book of Humor Published
DANIEL HANDLER (A Series of Unfortunate Events)
Quick and Painless Advice for the Aspiring Humor Writer, Part Nine: Selling Your Movie Script to a Studio Executive
BRUCE JAY FRIEDMAN (Stir Crazy, Splash)
DANIEL CLOWES (Ghost World, Esquire, New York Times Magazine)
Canned Laughter: A History Reconstructed
Recommended Reading
Foreword
by Adam McKay
There are a few ways that you, the reader, have come to this book. Either you hope to someday write comedy professionally and want to see how the “masters” do it, or you are a comedy fan and want to read some funny stories from funny people. Or you are friends with someone interviewed within, or maybe you even hate someone within and want to see if they come off as much like an asshole in print as they do in real life. Or you work for the FBI or CIA and are forced to scan books for potentially inciting or dangerous content. Then there are those of you who are trapped in a flood or hurricane and the only book that is within reach is this one. So, you read this book not so much for its content but for its affirmation that human interaction is possible even as the water rises and your faith erodes. Lastly, there are probably one or two people out there who are mentally ill or under the influence of methamphetamine and are using this book as a bible to decipher the signs of the impending end-time — or “Ragnarok,” as it's referred to in Norse mythology.
Only you, and you alone, know which of these paths have led you to hold this book at this very exact moment. And yet, no matter the reason, I encourage you to take a deep breath to give thanks for the knowledge you are about to receive
.
Each of the writers interviewed here has devoted his or her life to making people laugh or smile. Some call these people “comedy writers” or “humorists” or, within the business itself, “guffaw generators.” My twin and I call them “chaba honloos.” In general, and in the United States in particular, comedy writers are not usually met with a great deal of legitimate literary respect. They are admired for making a living on their wits, or even praised for their earning power, but unless a writer's work appears on the pages of The New Yorker — which, in fairness, a few of the individuals within have — or drifts into the realm of “satire,” accolades are rare and celebrity almost nonexistent.
Why is this, you ask? The answer might be that this genre of writing needs to provoke a bodily response: a laugh. As we all know, the body and all of its emissions (fluids, sounds, gases, the occasional kidney stone) have never officially made the domain of “high art.” They exist on the periphery. And yet, interesting and subversive voices have always come from that murky area far beyond the world of “high-end” literary circles. Case in point: George Meyer, Bob Odenkirk, and Buck Henry are dirtbags by Paris Review standards. But I would argue that The Simpsons, Mr. Show, and To Die For are all works that understand our culture and its narcissistic obsession with fame, greed, and other weighty matters better than — or as well as — anything written by Martin Amis or Jonathan Franzen.
(Note: In order to make that last statement, I am depending heavily on the fact that Mr. Amis and Mr. Franzen will never be within five miles of this book. If by some freakish chance either of you is reading these words, I am terribly sorry. You are literary titans. I made that previous and ridiculous claim because I'm writing for the riffraff, and I hope to see you both at Elaine's on Tuesday! Good cheer, chums!)
So, if you're reading this book to find out “how they do it,” you've come to the right place. There are five or six pie charts, three or four formulas, and one dance mat that will show you precisely where to place your feet and hands. More important, look at this book as an invitation to see some great writers finally put on a three-piece suit and load up a cigarette case and then try their damndest to provoke a bodily response. Again, hopefully a laugh — and not bloody urine to signify a kidney stone.
Adam McKay is a writer and director of movies such as Anchorman, Talladega Nights, and Step Brothers. He was head writer of Saturday Night Live from 1996 to 1999, and a founding member of the improv- and sketch-comedy group Upright Citizens Brigade. He started the Web site Funny or Die with Will Ferrell and Chris Henchy and is a regular contributor to The Huffington Post.
Afterword to the First Foreword
by Jim Windolf
If you've read any of the humor pieces by Mike Sacks that have run in McSweeney's, Esquire, The New Yorker, Radar, Vanity Fair or other publications, you know he's a funny writer with an absurd world view. In this book, however, he doesn't try to show off his wit. Instead, he concentrates on persuading a wide range of writers to reveal, in as much detail as they are able, the ins and outs of writing funny.
And Here's the Kicker is full of encouraging words of advice, such as this little piece of sunshine from longtime Onion writer Todd Hanson: “People will often ask, ‘How do I get a job writing comedy?’ I always answer: ‘You do it for free for ten years and then, if you are really lucky, you get to write humor as a full-time job.’” Way to inspire the kids, Todd. That was really, really nice.
Aside from being a useful guide for the aspiring humor writer, this book is also an accidental history of comedy through a few of its golden ages. The people interviewed in the following pages have played major parts in creating everything from the Marx Brothers to The Graduate, as well as Groundhog Day to Ghost World to Arrested Development to The Office to The Daily Show to The Colbert Report, and many, many more of your favorite comedies.
Sacks's manner of conducting an interview is straightforward and pleasant in its lack of discernible attitude. His oddball's knowledge of show-business arcana pops up now and then, such as in the interview with cartoonist Daniel Clowes. The two of them veer off into a fascinating, albeit pointless, discussion of their mutual fascination with a conspicuous extra who appears in the Martin Scorsese film The King of Comedy. If conspicuous extras are your thing, this is the book for you.
Sacks has good taste, but he's not one of those comedy snobs who's automatically against a pop-culture artifact just because it's popular. He has made room in this book for Larry Gelbart, the brains behind the M*A*S*H television series, as well as the more obscure Paul Feig, creator of the much-loved but prematurely cancelled Freaks and Geeks.
The following pages are filled with interesting details likely to stick to the brains of humor writers and comedy fanatics. Writer-performer-director Bob Odenkirk, in discussing a Mr. Show sketch that didn't quite work, says the piece in question may have been “just a little too pleased with itself.” In another interview, Simpsons writer and Army Man — creator George Meyer describes a lesson he learned from fellow comedy writer Jack Handey (who's also interviewed here): “He showed me that hilarious runs could be created with simple, unpretentious language. He taught me to can the preamble and just get to the funny part.”
This is a book mainly about craft. With his just-the-facts-ma'am demeanor, Sacks gets his subjects to talk about how they do what they do. The interesting thing about this approach is that it often ends with the interviewees going into the more personal issue of why they do what they do.
Comic-strip artist Al Jaffee, a key member of the “usual gang of idiots” at Mad magazine, is not so forthcoming about the nuts and bolts of comedy writing (“It's just something that happens automatically for me,” he explains, or fails to), but he reveals an underlying reason for why he is funny that will surprise readers who know him only as the creator of Mad's Fold-In and Snappy Answers to Stupid Questions department: “Between the restrictions coming from our own religious community and those coming from the anti-Semitic government,” Jaffee says of growing up a Jew in 1930s Lithuania, just before the arrival of the Nazis, “you were caught in such a ridiculous situation. The only thing you could do was laugh at it, make fun of it. I don't think humor is just here to tickle people. Humor has much deeper roots than that.”
Other interview subjects, after being worked over with an onslaught of craft-related questions, end up making confessions, such as Irving Brecher, who made a name for himself as a writer for the Marx Brothers. He was 19 years old and working as a movie-theater usher when he stumbled on the opportunity to write gags for Milton Berle. Their first meeting took place at Berle's hotel room in New York. “I knocked on the door, and a naked man opened it,” Brecher says. “I knew it was Berle immediately.” Sacks, decent journalist that he is, presses for detail. To which Brecher replies, “Have you ever seen a salami chub?”
Why is such a detail included in a book on humor writing? Maybe it's because Milton Berle — a notorious joke thief with a legendary penis who would go on to become America's biggest cross-dressing star on prime-time television — is some kind of a spiritual godfather to modern comedy. Or maybe it's because the term “salami chub” is funny.
And then there are the murders, which seem to crop up frequently in this book. When Dick Cavett was growing up in Nebraska his family had dealings with 1950s serial killer Charles Starkweather. “Charles was our garbageman,” Cavett cheerfully informs Sacks. “I was at Yale when the murders happened. I called home, and my stepmother said, ‘Yeah, your dad used to talk to Charles every single time he picked up our trash. Charles didn't talk to very many people, and your dad felt sorry for him.’” In another interview, Marshall Brickman, a onetime head writer for The Tonight Show who later went on to co-write Annie Hall and Manhattan with Woody Allen, tells of just missing a notorious party that did not end well for those who did show up. A few interviews on, we learn that comic novelist Bruce Jay Friedman might have been riddled with bullets if he hadn't followed the advice of the novelist Mario Puzo, who
told him it wasn't such an intelligent idea to keep hanging out with gangster Joey Gallo. “I was invited to join Joey and a group at Umbertos Clam House the very night he was gunned down,” Friedman tells Sacks. “Mario played a part in my saying I had a previous engagement.”
Aside from the three near-murders, And Here's the Kicker presents two wildly different opinions on the pun. “I hate puns,” says Merrill Markoe, who once headed the writing staff at Late Night with David Letterman. “I never find them funny. They are all about, ‘See what a clever boy or girl I am.’ They make my skin crawl.” Whenever I read something like that — a strong opinion, well-stated — I'm always in full agreement. That is, until I read something like this, from the interview with A Series of Unfortunate Events novelist Daniel Handler (better known as Lemony Snicket): “You know,” Handler says, “I've never understood why puns are considered the lowest form of humor. Clearly, we can think of lower forms of humor than a pun, right? Slapstick isn't lower? Falling into a puddle of shit? To write a pun at least takes some form of brainpower. You have to have a bit of a crossword-puzzle mind to create those things.”
This is the type of argument you can expect in the pages ahead. It will mean nothing to people whose curiosity about comedy ends the moment the laughs leave their throats. For others — the misfits, the loners, the geeks who still think about Airplane! twice a day — the material in this book will mean everything in the world. To those very people, I dedicate the following paragraph: