Wuornos: I think I probably… it was… I always shot somebody, if I could, you know, as fast as I could, it would always hit right around this area. [She indicated to the centre of her chest.] Up here, right over… I always aimed to the mid-section so I know I shot them… usually it would be we both got naked and I was going to do an honest deed but I had a big fight. They… they were either going to physically fight me… either try to rape me or something or they were going to try to… you know, so they wouldn’t have to pay their… I don’t know what they were going to do. They just… started getting radical on me and I had to… do what I had to do.
Bruce Munster and Lawrence Horzepa had heard all of this soul-washing before from Lee. Now, with her lawyer present, they wanted to get down to business. The time for delicate niceties was over.
Munster: OK, the guy with the .45 that you told me about before [Charles Carskaddon]. Now is he before this or after this, do you remember?
Wuornos: I think he was before. He was the second guy.
Munster: Oh, the guy with the Cadillac was the second guy?
Wuornos: No, the guy with the .45, I shot more than… over nine times. Because I was pissed when I found the .45 on top of the car. I reloaded the gun and I shot him some more. And we were way out in the boonies there and that’s where he started getting physical. He said, ‘You fucking bitch,’ and I said, ‘You fucking bastard, you were going to blow my brains out,’ and I kept shooting him in the back seat of the car. Then I drove over to 52 and dumped the body.
Munster: Was he still naked?
Wuornos: He was naked. I always stripped first. Mallory never stripped. He was just going to physically fight me and get whatever he wanted. I don’t know without his pants off, but it was his trip.
Lee went on to explain how Mallory picked her up.
Wuornos: All right… he asked me if I wanted to smoke a joint and I said, ‘Well, I don’t really smoke pot.’ He said, ‘You don’t mind if I smoke some?’ I said, ‘I don’t care what you do. Do whatever you feel like doing… it doesn’t bother me.’ So, he’s smoking pot and we’re going down the road and he says, ‘Do you want a drink?’ and he has, I don’t know what it was, it was tonic and some jazz. I don’t know what kind of liquor it was. So I said, ‘Sure, that sounds good to me.’ So, we’re drinking and we’re getting past Orlando and we’re getting pretty drunk now. And we’re continually going down the road and I… we’re getting drunk royal. Then I asked him if he wanted to help me make some money because I need some money for rent and everything. He was interested at the time. So we go out and we stop at this place on US 1, but we spend the whole night drinking and… you know, having fun for a little while.
Horzepa: What’s ‘having fun’?
Wuornos: Like… just talking. He’s smoking pot and I’m drinking and we’re talking. Then he said, ‘OK, do you want to make your money now?’ Around probably five in the morning maybe. And I said, ‘OK.’ You know, so he’s pretty drunk and I’m pretty drunk.
Horzepa: Now, describe this area where you’re at.
Wuornos: We’re past I-95, maybe a half mile up the road. There was a little spot that went into the woods.
Horzepa: And, you’re off… which road?
Wuornos: US 1.
Horzepa: US 1. OK. Describe to me the spot in the woods, if you can. Was it small, large? Do you remember anything about it?
Wuornos: Well, it was dark. We couldn’t hardly see to get in.
Horzepa: How d’you find it?
Wuornos: We kind of drove looking for this road to go in and we drove back around and we saw a road go in.
Horzepa: OK, so you were looking for a cut-off in the woods.
Wuornos: Right.
Horzepa: A spot in the woods that was…
Wuornos: Right.
Horzepa: Already a trail?
Wuornos: Right.
Horzepa: OK.
Wuornos: So we go into the woods… so he gives me the money and I start to disrobe. Now the guy’s getting really… kind of starting… now he’s going to start getting, you know, kissing on me and stuff and… anyway, he hasn’t disrobed himself at all.
Horzepa: Do you know what he was wearing?
Wuornos: I think he was wearing jeans and some shirt.
Horzepa: Do you remember if it was long or short sleeves?
Wuornos: No, I don’t remember at all.
Horzepa: OK.
Wuornos: OK, so, anyway, we’re in the front seat. He’s hugging and kissing on me and all this shit so then he starts, you know, pushing me down. And I said, ‘Wait a minute,’ you know, get cool. ‘You don’t have to get rough, you know. This is… let’s have fun. This is for fun, you know.’ And he’s telling me, ‘Well, baby, you know I’ve been waiting for this all night long,’ and stuff like that.
Horzepa: Now where are you when this is occurring?
Wuornos: In the front seat of the car.
Horzepa: All right, and you’re sitting where?
Wuornos: On the passenger side.
Horzepa: And, he is sitting… where?
Wuornos: In the driver’s seat, going against me.
Horzepa: OK. He’s behind the wheel of the car?
Wuornos: But he’s coming toward me.
Horzepa: OK.
Wuornos: The doors are open. OK. So then he’s getting really heavy, you know, on me, you know, and stuff, and I’m going like, now he’s getting to where he just wants to just, you know. Unzipped his pants, not take his pants off or anything, just start having sex and stuff. And I said, ‘Well, why don’t you just disrobe or something,’ you know? ‘I mean, why do you have to have your clothes still on?’ Then he started getting violent with me. So we’re fighting a little bit and I had my purse right on the passenger floor.
Horzepa: What kid of purse did you have?
Wuornos: A… a brown purse.
Horzepa: Is that the same purse that you…
Wuornos: Oh, no, wait. I didn’t have my brown purse. No, it’s not the one I had. I had a blue bag and it had a zip on the side. OK, and it was unzipped because I… I wanted to make sure if anything happened I… I could use my gun. Things are starting to happen where he was going to… I was thinking he was going to roll me, take my money back, beat me up, or whatever the heck he was going to do. So I jumped out of the car with my bag and I grabbed the gun and I said, ‘Get out of the car.’ And he said, ‘What… what’s going on?’ and I said, ‘You son of a bitch, I knew you were going to rape me.’ And he said, ‘No I wasn’t, no I wasn’t.’ And I said, ‘Oh, yes you were. You know you were going to try to rape me, man.’ So, anyway, I told him to step away from the car. Oh, no, no, no, I didn’t. All this and another thing, OK, I know what happ– OK, I took… I got… I jumped out of the car, yeah, he was starting to physically do stuff to me… aw, this is a different story. God. See it’s so long ago.
Horzepa: It’s all right. Take your time.
Wuornos: Yeah. OK, I jumped out of the car. I pulled my gun out when he started to physically do shit with me.
Horzepa: Now, what type of gun did you have?
Wuornos: Nine… .22 nine-shot, you know.
Horzepa: Twenty-two long rifle?
Wuornos: No, it’s a gun, like about this big…
Horzepa: OK. Why did you keep that gun with you?
Wuornos: I was keeping it for protection.
Horzepa: Where did you get the gun from?
Wuornos: I stole it from a guy at a house.
Horzepa: How long before?
Wuornos: Oh, God, I don’t know. I think it was…
Horzepa: Months? Years?
Wuornos: I don’t know, man, it might have been about, a couple of months ago… I might have got the gun just then. I don’t… I can’t remember. Like… like two days before or something.
Horzepa: OK. That’s no problem.
Wuornos: Because, I can’t remember. It’s such a long time. I did a lot of stuff in the time, you know.
Horzepa: OK, so yo
u’re back there. You jump out of the car…
Wuornos: I jumped out of the car because he was physically starting to abuse me. And I remember now. He didn’t even give me any money. This was another guy. This guy, he said, ‘Well, I’ll give…’ No, I said, ‘Well, I always take my money first,’ and he said he wanted to see how the merchandise fit.
Horzepa: This is what Mr Mallory told you?
Wuornos: Yes.
Horzepa: OK.
Wuornos: So I said, ‘Well, since I’ve been talking to you all night long, I think you seem like a pretty nice guy, you know, so OK, let’s… let’s go have fun. So I started to lay down and he was going to, you know, unzip his pants. And I said, ‘Why don’t you take your clothes off?’ My God, you know, I said, ‘Well, it hurt to do that.’ Then he got pissed, calling me… He said, ‘Fuck you, baby, I’m going to screw you right here and now…’ Something like that.
Horzepa: Now where are you?
Wuornos: I’m in the woods with this guy and the doors are open.
Horzepa: OK.
Wuornos: I remember that. And I said, ‘No, no, you’re not going to just fuck me. You got to pay me.’ And he said, ‘Oh, bullshit.’ And that’s when he got pissed. Now, I’m coming back to recollection. OK, so that’s when we started fighting and everything else and I jumped out. He grabbed my bag and I grabbed my bag and the arm busted and, when I got the bag again and I pulled it out of his hand, that’s when I grabbed the pistol out. And when I grabbed the pistol out, I just shot him in the front seat.
Referring to Richard Mallory later in the questioning, Lee changed the earlier version of her account and claimed: ‘See, one guy, he was trying to screw me in the ass and stuff… he was going to try to a… anal screw. You know, anal screw or whatever you call it. So I started fighting with him and I got to my bag and I shot him. And then when I shot him the first time, he just backed away. And, I thought… I thought to myself, Well, hell, should I, you know, try to help this guy or should I just kill him. So, I didn’t know what to do, so I figured, Well, if I help the guy and he lives, he’s going to tell on me and I’m going to get it for attempted murder, all this jazz. And I thought, Well, the best thing to do is just keep shooting him. Then I get to the point that I thought, Well, I shot him. The stupid bastard would have killed me so I kept shooting. You know. In other words, I shot him and then I said to myself, Damn, you know, if I didn’t… sh– shoot him, he would have shot me because he would have beat the shit out of me, maybe. I would have been unconscious. He would have found my gun going through my stuff, and shot me. Because he probably would have gone to get it for trying to rape me, see? So I shot him and then I thought to myself, Well, Hell, I might as well just keep shooting him. Because I got to kill the guy because he’s going to… he’s going to… you know, go, and tell somebody if he lives, whatever. Then I thought to myself, Well, this dirty bastard deserves to die anyway because of what he was trying to do to me. So, those three things went in my mind for every guy that I shot…’
Munster: Did you watch TV?
Wuornos: I watched TV all my life.
Munster: Did you watch to see if the police…
Wuornos: I watched TV all the time, but after the crimes, yes I did.
Munster: To see what the police were doing?
Wuornos: To see if they had found the bodies.
Horzepa: OK. From all the shootings that you have told us about, for the most part, you’ve always gotten the drop on these guys. You’ve been able to get your gun and point it at them.
Wuornos: Uh huh.
Horzepa: Right?
Wuornos: Right.
Horzepa: OK. At that particular time, you were in control. Why didn’t you just run? Why didn’t you…
Wuornos: Because I was always basically totally nude with my shoes off and everything and I wasn’t going to run through the woods and briars and the…
Horzepa: No, but still, like I say, you’re in control. You got that gun. You could go ahead and get dressed while you had, you know, them do whatever you basically wanted. Why did you go ahead and… shoot these people?
Wuornos: Because they physically fought with me and I was… well, I guess I was afraid, because they were physically fighting with me and I… what am I supposed to do, you know, hold the gun there until I get dressed and now I am going to walk out of here? When the guy, you know, might… you know, run me over with his truck or might come back when I’m walking through the woods or something… uh, have a gun on him too or something. I didn’t know if they had a gun or not.
Horzepa: So was it… was it your intent, during each of these times, to kill this person so they couldn’t come back at you later?
Wuornos: Because I didn’t know if they had a gun or anything. I… once I got my gun, I was like, ‘Hey, man, I’ve got to shoot you because I think you’re going to kill me,’ see?
Horzepa: What about the ones who didn’t have a gun, like Mr Mallory?
Wuornos: I didn’t know they had… didn’t have a gun.
Horzepa: OK. So you were taking no chances.
Wuornos: Right. I did not know… what… had… they… what was in their vehicle. See?
Horzepa: OK.
Wuornos: I didn’t know if they had it under the seat, close by them. I didn’t know if they were in arm’s reach of another weapon or what. See?
Horzepa: What made you take property… a lot of property or a little property from some and not from others? Was there anything there that…
Wuornos: I guess it was.
Horzepa: Motivated you to…
Wuornos: I guess it was after, it was pure hatred. Yeah, I think afterward, it was like, You bastard, you would have hurt me and, uh, I’ll take the stuff and get my money’s worth because some of them didn’t even hardly have any money. They were going to… they were… some of them didn’t have any money. Like that guy, uh, the drug-dealer guy… he had 20 bucks and he was… he wasn’t going to give me any more money. The one with the .45 on the hood [Carskaddon].
Horzepa: Mmm. Mmm. So you just started living off the items that they had? Is that what you were doing?
Wuornos: No, I think I took them just for the fact that, you bastards, you were going to hurt me, you were going to rape me, or whatever you were going to do. Well, I’ll just, you know, keep these little items so I don’t have to buy them or something. I don’t know. I just…
Horzepa: It was like a final revenge?
Wuornos: Yeah. OK. That would… that would do. Mmm… mmm.
Munster: Lee, after you shot one time, I mean you could have left. You could have taken their stuff and [inaudible].
Wuornos: I didn’t want to do that because I was afraid that, if I shot them one time and they survived, my… my face and all that, description of me, would be all over the place and the only way I could make money was to hustle. And I knew these guys would probably… would, you know, rat on me if they survived and all this stuff… and I would… I was hoping that I… after what I had to do, that I wouldn’t have gotten caught for it because I figured that these guys deserved it. Because those guys were going to either rape, kill… I don’t know what they were going to do to me. See what I’m saying?
Horzepa: So you continued to kill these men to cover up when you… when you shot these men. Mallory was the first. Is that correct?
Munster: OK. You continued… you had to go ahead and kill these men so that they couldn’t testify against you and have it all backtracked? From body to body then?
Wuornos: Oh, no, I didn’t even think of that either. I… I shot them because it was like to me, a self-defending thing because I felt that if I didn’t shoot them and I didn’t kill them, first of all, if they survived, my ass would be getting in trouble for attempted murder, so I’m up shit’s creek on that one anyway, and… and… and if I didn’t and if… and if I didn’t kill them, you know, of course, I mean I had to kill them… or it’s retaliation, too. It’s like, you bastards. You were going to… you were goin
g to hurt me.
Horzepa: So now I’m going to hurt you.
Wuornos: Yeah. Mmm… mmm.
Munster: Yeah, all… all of these guys that you shot, they seem to be older guys. Over the age of 40. What is that?
Wuornos: Because all of the guys that I dealt with were that age. Every… every guy.
Munster: You were dead wood for the younger guys?
Wuornos: No. Every guy I dealt with on the road was anywhere from… let’s see… 37 and up.
Horzepa: Was that your decision? I mean, like the…
Wuornos: Yeah. Because I…
Horzepa: Younger guy in his twenties would stop…
Wuornos: Yeah, because, see, I don’t do drugs or anything and I wanted to deal with people who didn’t do drugs. I was looking for clean and decent people. But, like I say, it just happened that the last… this following year, that I kept meeting guys that were turning out to be ugly guys… to me. That they were… fighting.
For three hours, Lee talked and talked, then she talked some more, despite the continuing advice from her attorney who effectively spelled it out to his client that she was putting her head in a noose. Lee’s mitigation was that she had been the wronged person. A simple hooker trying to earn a fast buck, her victims had used her, treated her badly or tried to have sex without payment. Her only remorse appeared to be directed towards Tyria, the lover she had failed. She shed not a tear for the incalculable suffering she had caused to her victims and their next of kin. She wanted to ‘make it good with God’ before she died; this would soon change as the months passed inexorably by during which Aileen Wuornos would metamorphose into the true monster that she really was. But, for now, with attentive, seemingly understanding police officers hanging on her every word, Lee continued to spill the beans.
Larry Horzepa now turned his attention to the property Lee had stolen from her dead victims.
Horzepa: Is there any property that you would have collected from these victims that may be stashed somewhere? You might have put it in the woods or behind an abandoned house or anything like that?
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