Was it Cray McCreery up there? Had somebody made him another bet? One time Cray had walked barefooted to the next town, eighteen miles, because of a lost bet. But no, Cray McCreery was found, as usual, in the Domino Parlor. Had any crazy people escaped from the asylum? They were counted and found to be all in. The mind reader, Madame Fritzie, was importuned: There seemed, she said, to be a dark woman in the picture; that was all she contributed: “I see a dark woman…” And as she had admonished so many in the town with her recurring vision of a dark woman, there was either an army of dark women tormenting the minds of men and women in the world, or only one, which was Madame Fritzie herself. She could have made a fortune out of the whole affair if she had had her wits about her. More than one Ouija board was put questions to, but the answers were either indistinguishable or not to the point.
Dogs howled and bayed at night and sometimes in the afternoons; hens crowed; the sudden death of children was laid to the evil power of Flagpole Moody over the town.
A masked buffoon came to a party dressed as Flagpole Moody and caused increasing uneasiness among the guests until three of the men at the party, deciding to take subtle action rather than force the stranger to unmask, reported to the police by telephone. The police told them to unmask him by force and they were coming. When the police arrived they found the stranger was Marcus Peters, a past president of the Lions Club and a practical joker with the biggest belly laugh in town, and everybody would have known all along who the impostor was if he had only laughed.
A new language evolved in the town: “You’re crazy as Moody,” “cold as a flagpole sitter’s——,” “go sit on a flagpole” and other phrases of that sort.
In that day and time there flourished, even in that little town, a group of sensitive and intellectual people, poets and artists and whatnot, who thought themselves quite mad and gay—and quite lost, too, though they would turn their lostness to a good thing. These advanced people needed an object upon which to hinge their loose and floating cause, and they chose Flagpole Moody to draw attention, which they so craved, to themselves. They exalted him with some high, esoteric meaning that they alone understood, and they developed a whole style of poetry, music and painting, the echoes of which are still heard, around the symbol of Flagpole Moody. They wrote, and read aloud to meetings, critical explanations of the Theory of Aloftness.
Only Mrs. T. Trevor Sanderson was bored with it all, shambling restlessly about the hospital in her Japanese kimono, her spotted hands (liver trouble, the doctors said) spread like fat lizards on the knolls of her hips. She was there again for one of her rest cures, because her oil-money worries were wearing her to death, and now the Catholic Church was pursuing her with zeal to convert her—for her money, so she said. Still, there was something to the Catholic Church; you couldn’t get around that, she said, turning her spotted hands to show them yellow underneath, like a lizard’s belly; and she gave a golden windowpane illustrating The Temptation of St. Anthony to St. Mary’s Church, but would do no more than that.
There were many little felonies and even big offenses of undetermined origin in the police records of the town, and Flagpole was a stimulus to the fresh inspection of unsolved crimes. He drew suspicions up to him and absorbed them like a filter, as though he might purify the town of wickedness. If only he would send down some response to what had gone up to him. But he would not budge; and now he no longer even waved to the people below as he had during the first good days. Flagpole Moody had utterly withdrawn from everybody. What the town finally decided was to put a searchlight on him at night, to keep watch on him.
With the searchlight on the flagpole sitter, the whole thing took a turn, became an excuse for a ribald attitude. When a little wartime carnival came to the town, it was invited to install itself in the square, and a bazaar was added to it by the town. The spirit of Flagpole had to be admired, it was admitted; for after a day and night of shunning the gaiety and the mockery of it all, he showed his good nature and good sportsmanship—even his daring—by participating! He began to do what looked like acrobatic stunts, as though he were an attraction of the carnival.
And what did the people do, after a while, but turn against him again and say he was, as they had said at first, a sensationalist? Still, I loved it that he had become active; that it was not a static, fastidious, precious and Olympian show, that Flagpole did not take on a self-righteous or pompous or persecuted air, although my secret conception of him was still a tragic one. I was proud that my idea fought back—otherwise he was like Old Man Gloom, a shape of straw and sawdust in man’s clothing, and let them burn him, if only gloom stood among the executioners, watching its own effigy and blowing on the flames. I know now that what I saw was the conflict of an idea with a society; and I am sure that the idea was bred by the society—raised up there, even, by the society—in short, society was in the flagpole sitter and he was in the society of the town.
There was, at the little carnival, one concession called “Ring Flagpole’s Bell.” It invited customers to try to strike a bell at the top of a tall pole resembling his—and with a replica of him on top—by hitting a little platform with a rubber-headed sledgehammer; this would drive a metal disk up toward the bell. There was another concession where people could throw darts at a target resembling a figure on a pole. The Ferris wheel was put so close to Flagpole that when its passengers reached the top they could almost, for a magical instant, reach over and touch his body. Going round and round, it was as if one were soaring up to him only to fall away, down, from him; to have him and to lose him; and it was all felt in a marvelous whirling sensation in the stomach that made this experience the most vaunted of the show.
This must have tantalized Flagpole, and perhaps it seemed to him that all the beautiful and desirable people in the world rose and fell around him, offering themselves to him only to withdraw untaken and ungiven, a flashing wheel of faces, eyes, lips and sometimes tongues stuck out at him and sometimes a thigh shown, offering sex, and then burning away. His sky at night was filled with voluptuous images, and often he must have imagined the faces of those he had once loved and possessed, turning round and round his head to torment him. But there were men on the wheel who made profane signs to him, and women who thumbed their noses.
Soon Flagpole raised his tent again and hid himself from his tormentors. What specifically caused his withdrawal was the attempt of a drunken young man to shoot him. This young man, named Maury, rode a motorcycle around the town at all hours and loved the meaner streets and the women who gave him ease, especially the fat ones, his mania. One night he stood at the hotel window and watched the figure on the pole, who seemed to flash on and off, real and then unreal, with the light of the electric sign beneath the window. He took deep drags of his cigarette and blew the smoke out toward Flagpole; then he blew smoke rings as if to lasso Flagpole with them, or as if his figure were a pin he could hoop with the rings of smoke. “You silly bastard, do you like what you see?” he had muttered, and “Where have I seen you before?” between his half-clenched teeth, and then he had fired the pistol. Flagpole turned away then, once and for all.
But he had not turned away from me. I, the silent observer, watching from my window or from any high place I could secretly climb to, witnessed all this conflict and the tumult of the town. One night in my dreaming of Flagpole Moody—it happened every night, this dream, and in the afternoons when I took my nap, and the dreaming had gone on so long that it seemed, finally, as if he and I were friends, that he came down secretly to a rendezvous with me in the little pasture, and it was only years later that I would know what all our conversations had been about—that night in my dream the people of the town came to me and said, “Son, we have chosen you to go up the flagpole to Flagpole Moody and tell him to come down.”
In my dream they led me, with cheers and honors, to the top of the building and stood below while I shinnied up the pole. A great black bird was circling over Flagpole’s tent. As I went up the pole I notice
d crowded avenues of ants coming and going along the pole. And when I went into the tent, I found Flagpole gone. The tent was as if a tornado had swept through the whole inside of it. There were piles of rotten food; shreds of letters torn and retorn, as small as flakes of snow; photographs pinned to the walls of the tent were marked and scrawled over so that they looked like photographs of fiends and monsters; corpses and drifts of feathers of dead birds that had flown at night into the tent and gone so wild with fright that they had beaten themselves to death against the sides. And over it all was the vicious traffic of insects that had found the remains, in the way insects sense what human beings have left, and come from miles away.
What would I tell them below, those who were now crying up to me, “What does he say, what does Flagpole Moody say?” And there were whistles and an increasingly thunderous chant of “Bring him down! Bring him down! Bring him down!” What would I tell them? I was glad he had gone; but I would not tell them that—yet. In the tent I found one little thing that had not been touched or changed by Flagpole; a piece of paper with printed words, and across the top the huge red words: WARNING! YOU ARE IN GREAT DANGER!
Then, in my dream, I went to the flap of the tent and stuck out my head. There was a searchlight upon me through which fell a delicate curtain of light rain; and through the lighted curtain of rain that made the people seem far, far below, under shimmering and jeweled veils, I shouted down to the multitude, which was dead quiet now, “He is not here! Flagpole Moody is not here!”
There was no sound from the crowd, which had not, at first, heard what I said. They waited; then one voice bellowed up, “Tell him to come down!” And others joined this voice until, again, the crowd was roaring, “Tell him that we will not harm him; only tell him he has to come down!” Then I waved down at them to be quiet, in Flagpole Moody’s gesture of salute, as he had waved down at people on the sidewalks and streets. Again they hushed to hear me. Again I said, this time in a voice that was not mine, but large and round and resounding, “Flagpole Moody is not here. His place is empty.”
And then, in my magnificent dream, I closed the flap of the tent and settled down to make Flagpole Moody’s place my own, to drive out the insects, to erase the marks on the photographs, and to piece together, with infinite and patient care, the fragments of the letters to see what they told. It would take me a very long time, this putting together again what had been torn into pieces, but I would have a very long time to give to it, and I was at the source of the mystery, removed and secure from the chaos of the world below that could not make up its mind and tried to keep me from making up my own.
My dream ended here, or was broken, by the hand of my mother shaking me to morning; and when I went to eat breakfast I heard them saying in the kitchen that Flagpole Moody had signaled early, at dawn, around six o’clock, that he wanted to come down; that he had come down in his own time, and that he had come down very, very tired, after forty days and nights, the length of the Flood. I did not tell my dream, for I had no power of telling then, but I knew that I had a story to one day shape around the marvel and mystery that ended in a dream and began in the world that was to be mine.
INTERVIEW
1982
AN INTERVIEW WITH WILLIAM GOYEN
What starts you writing?
It starts with trouble. You don’t think it starts with peace, do you?
Reginald Gibbons: A passage from “Nests in a Stone Image” could serve as epigraph for all your work:
He had come here out of some loss and bereavement and to sit and have back again, as it wanted to come back to him, with whatever face or feature, shape or name, what he had lost; … to control it and keep it from chaos again, to give it its meaning that it waited for… This was what claimed him.
William Goyen: I found a kind of statement for myself there, didn’t I?—through real deep suffering. It’s really meditation. It’s kind of a salvation—a lot of those pieces are really my little salvation pieces: they represent my being rescued again from deep suffering.
Q: Rescued by what?
WG: I felt that I was rescuing myself. I got a sense of myself, in a flash. It was a spiritual experience, of course. And with that clarification, I was able to move on out of what might have destroyed me. I don’t know that I have ever felt that I have been lifted by a higher power—a god or anything. By divinity. It must have been art, then—a sense of one’s self suddenly frees him, at least for that time, and one is able then to go on.
Q: The story is quite free of what readers normally expect from a story—
WG: God bless them!
Q:—it doesn’t give them a plot or character development.
WG: But I see that it was a form I found for myself, and used over and over again, in a whole body of work, without knowing that I was using it. I didn’t put it up on the wall and say, “This is the form I will now follow.” But it was deep pain, a feeling of utter isolation and removal from the community of human beings—that kind of lostness. And then, through an acuteness of feeling and an awareness of things around me, coming back to life, through life around me—in this case—in the story you quoted from, “Nests in a Stone Image”—people in the rooms around the speaker in the story. In his misery and isolation he was surrounded by human beings, all singing and making love and talking, and life was in those rooms around him, and then rising. It was always the rising action, that I felt, over and over again.
Q: That’s what you mean by the sense of form?
WG: Coming up, yes, from the bottom, rising to the top and then being freed of that pain and being identified, is surely what it was, wasn’t it?
The form was new each time. But two things—it’s about love, and total giving in love till there was nothing left, total faith in life and love; and then feeling destroyed and abandoned, and then finding again… through life going on. Despite my misery, life was just going on! Those were such great revelations, do you know that? Suddenly you heard people next door saying, “Well, do we need eggs? Well, let’s see, we need eggs, bread…” They’re making a list of groceries! And writing checks. That life was restored to me, so often not through great bursts of something, like St. Paul’s revelation, but through just the trivial, which I still hold to, the everyday trivial detail. That has always pulled me through.
Q: Is the meaning of a story as much in the act of telling it as it is in its substance?
WG: It has a spiritual significance. Someone wrote that about my work—that the liberating, therefore spiritual, significance of storytelling was in the very telling itself, a kind of a prayer or meditation or apotheosis of feeling, a dynamic spiritual action. So: the need to tell, on the part of a lot of characters I have written about, like Raymon Emmons [“Ghost and Flesh”].
But in some writers what one gets is diction more than voice. That is, it’s thick speech, rather than voice. There’s a great difference between speech and voice. “Correcting” the speech of my characters, as some copy editors wish to do, affects the voice. That’s the pitfall of some writers, some of the Southern writers, who get hung up on diction and speech. Synge was in danger of that, too. There is a quality of voice that is, I guess, undefinable. I feel I know what that is, and I have to wait for it, and that determines my work: voice. I can’t fake it, and I can’t find it if it’s not there. I have to hear it. This I know for myself. Sometimes the voice, the same voice, tells me a bunch of stories.
People in my life told me stories, and I sang. They had the speech, and I got the voice. And I place the burden for that difference on angels, good and bad. Some people seem to have a good angel, or a bad one (can there be bad angels?), and yet some have none at all.
Q: Still, you have to work at the art—the angel’s not going to do the work for you, is it?
WG: But it can put a tongue in my mouth for a little while [“Tongues of Men and of Angels”]. That’s what happened to me.
When I first rode a bicycle, I couldn’t ride it without my father pushing me, hold
ing me there, and I said, “But what am I going to do? Don’t let loose! Don’t let loose!” (We had just a little hill.) He said, “Son, I wouldn’t let you aloose, don’t you worry.” And one day, he had, and I was going right along! And I looked back, and he wasn’t there, and I was doing it! From then on I rode the bicycle.
Now, when I’m really working, really writing, I have the feeling it’s coming from outside of me, through me. An absolute submission, absolute surrender. It’s being had, being possessed. I’m being used.
Q: Are you very curious to define that “it” that is using you?
WG: No. I recognize it, and know when it’s not there. It’s like being in love, or being mad—all those radical emotions.
Q: Are you reluctant to talk about it?
WG: There’s something in me that shuts it off.
Q: Is it like that moment when Dante describes Virgil and Statius walking ahead, speaking of poetry, and Dante won’t repeat what they said?
WG: I’m not able to talk about it. St. Paul speaks of the inexpressible, what you don’t repeat. There are some revelations I have, he said, that there are no words for, and why should I try? There is a reticence.
Q: In an interview with William Peden, you said “the storyteller is a blessed force in telling his story to a listener; a redemptive process occurs, and it’s therefore a spiritual situation, and one cannot avoid that.” What do you mean, “a spiritual situation”?
WG: It has to do first of all with distinguishing simply between spiritual and material. It’s not, “How much am I going to get for it?” And if it doesn’t have to do with tangible rewards, then it has to do with intangible ones, with my spirit, with my own yearning toward something higher than I, something by definition divine, some outer higher power working through me, that I have no power over or at least did not create.
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