People wanted to be dead serious—and you should take such matters seriously—but I think people misunderstood the whole thing, because they made themselves miserable by being like that. You’re not alive if you don’t enjoy yourself, if you’re miserable. I think Satanism has nothing to do with being a loser.
WHY DID THE ANTAGONISM TOWARD LAVEY’S IDEAS DEVELOP IN THE SCENE?
Many people turned against LaVey, and wanted it to be more extreme. I can also understand that, because for many people it was also about not being like everyone else. When LaVey says that the simplest housewife can be a Satanist, which it seems like he does in the Satanic Bible, I guess some were terrified that he had views that would take the special thing they had away from them.
HOW DID THE SCENE BECOME SO EXTREME?
It just came with the whole imagery of the Black Metal scene as it evolved in Norway. It was Satanic, and very dark and very evil. Christianity was the opposite. When people entered the scene they were not necessarily very hateful against Christianity; their hate against Christianity built up together with getting into Black Metal.
We were very inspired by what everybody else said. The emotions and atmosphere around it were very “evil.” Many people did not laugh; they were very serious all the time. Nothing should be “good.” Everybody was very grim looking. Everyone wanted to be like that, and I guess there are some who are that way still.
EMPEROR
I probably piss many people off because I’m not like that; I’m not a miserable person. I’m actually having quite a good time and I laugh and enjoy myself. I must admit I was inspired by those other things earlier, but I don’t think to the same degree. Of course you were affected by the whole atmosphere, that you don’t sit and laugh in this Helvete place, and you have respect for the known figures in the scene, and were careful what to say to Euronymous in the beginning, before you got to know him. Everything was very serious all the time.
WAS IT A REACTION AGAINST STRICT CHRISTIANITY IN NORWAY?
The Norwegian State Church is not strict at all. I think it’s quite funny, we have female Bishops and priests, and we have homosexual priests and homosexual marriages, which is very much against what’s said in the Bible. The State Church in Norway is very liberal.
OR A REBELLION AGAINST CHRISTIAN UPBRINGING?
My parents are not religious at all. Normal people assume, “Oh, people into Black Metal must have had a terrible childhood and have been molested. They’re weak and come from terrible backgrounds.” But as far as I’m concerned, many people I know in the scene actually come from good families, non-religious families, and had a great childhood with very nice parents and no pressure at all. Quite wealthy families, really.
WHY WERE SUCH OVERTLY EXTREME STATEMENTS MADE BY PEOPLE LIKE EURONYMOUS TO THE PRESS?
I think that was very much to create fear among people. But I know people who believe in things like burning in hell, and have quite primitive Satanic views. I respect that.
WAS ANTON LAVEY’S SATANIC BIBLE A SIGNIFICANT INFLUENCE ON YOU?
I bought the Satanic Bible and read it, and was of course very fascinated by it, because it’s a book that’s very easy to agree with. Most people can associate with what it says. I also got excited by the Satanic imagery, which was very special. That inspired me very much. You’ve got to start at one point, then you get to other influences, other impressions... I was then much influenced by the Black Metal scene and more extreme stuff. After awhile you go back and forth and create your own thoughts out of it, as you mature. Now I don’t agree with anybody; I don’t have similar views to anyone in the scene.
For some, LaVey has been quite influential. He has been important just to get a word like “Satanism” out, because I don’t think it was very much known in that manner before he started the Church of Satan. He made more of a name for it that people recognize. And in Norway because of the Black Metal thing, now everyone here knows what Black Metal is and everyone has heard the word Satanism.
HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOU OWN VIEWS ON SATANISM?
My form of Satanism has very little to do with ritual; it’s much more a philosophy—you come to logical explanations for anti-Christian behavior. The Satanic Bible describes how most people live and how most people react; it describes ordinary stuff in Satanic imagery. If someone hits you, most people would hit back, but it’s not necessarily Satanic. So I think there’s also more to Satanism besides the philosophy. There are very many emotional elements as well. I try to give very much of myself, and my emotions, to the music which I create. That’s as important to me as the philosophy. It’s as much a spiritual life and it gets stronger and stronger the more you know about it.
CAN ANY AVERAGE PERSON FOLLOW A SATANIC PHILOSOPHY?
I don’t feel like a normal person. Not everyone can be a Satanist. LaVey has done a very good job getting people interested in anti-Christian thinking and Satanic imagery. I also believe that he is much more serious and spiritually into this kind of Satan than he describes in his books. Picturing things in Satanic imagery, you have to have feelings for that kind of imagery, that way of thinking.
DO YOU AGREE WITH LAVEY’S STATEMENT THAT “SATANISTS ARE BORN, NOT MADE”?
I have turned now to become a Satanist, but I feel I could not be anything else. Even if I was raised in a different environment I would still have turned out to be a Satanist. I couldn’t be anything else. It’s very important to me, and has affected my whole life and my way of thinking.
Sometimes it can be also hard; you get a lot of trouble for being a Satanist. But I would never give that up for anything else. Sometimes I think it would be great to be more anonymous—it’s a small town that I live in, everyone knows who I am. People look at me even though I don’t dress particularly extremely, just because everybody knows what I am. Also with where I work, people are very skeptical towards me, and sometimes it would be easier if no one knew. But it’s so important, it’s not a thing that you can give up just because it’s difficult.
Another band who have distinguished themselves from many of their contemporaries in terms of sound and vision is Ulver. The music of Ulver is impossible to easily categorize—although it is firmly rooted in Black Metal—and they have even released one album, Kveldssanger (“Evening Songs”), recorded solely with acoustic instruments. The result is a collection of haunting, baroque songs which lie somewhere between traditional Norse Folk music and Classical. Ulver are equally competent at creating blinding and aggressive electrified Black Metal. They also strongly identify with Satanism.
ULVER
DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELVES TO BE ALIGNED WITH BLACK METAL IN MUSIC AND IDEOLOGY?
Erik: Ulver was born out of the Black Metal scene, and on all of our releases so far except Kveldssanger, there can be no question about our alignment with Black Metal music. Our statements have also born evidence of related attitudes. However, bearing in mind the way Ulver has developed over the years both musically, lyrically, and philosophically, the label is becoming too limiting.
But what is behind Black Metal “ideology”? The source of Black Metal is Venom: beer-drinking, base-minded rabble, icons of Heavy Metal idiocy. The essence of Black Metal is Heavy Metal culture, not Satanic philosophy. Just look at our audience. The average Black Metal record buyer is a stereotypical loser: a good-for-nothing who was teased as a child, got bad grades at school, lives on social welfare and seeks compensation for his inferiority complexes and lack of identity by feeling part of an exclusive gang of outcasts uniting against a society which has turned them down. And with Heavy Metal as a cultural and intellectual foundation, these dependents on social altruism proclaim themselves the “elite”! Hah! Could it be more pathetic?
Garm: In certain ways I still cherish Black Metal as it was definitely the decisive factor for both my interests in music and the dark side. But since the early days I have matured quite a bit, and find it difficult to see myself as a part of this movement because a lot of Black Metal people fol
low very fallacious and narrow concepts of life. I seek to be impeccable, and this can only be achieved through open-mindedness. This implies interests outside what is common in the above circles.
A lot of abominable developments have happened in the scene since I was truly involved, and I am sad to say that most of the people who now dominate this milieu are but a bunch of conformist alcoholic losers with no genuine feeling for the concept and searching for an easy way to feel initiated into something eccentric and special. Black Metal now makes ignorant and unconfident young people feel warm and cozy, and functions more as a crutch for individual weakness than anything else. Now isn’t that cute!
IS CHRISTIANITY IN NORWAY SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE BATTLED AGAINST?
Erik: Christianity is but one expression of herd mentality, and to battle against it is like battling against the nature of society. For as long as organized human societies exist, there will always be a division between the unconscious masses and conscious individuals. The Christian religion may wither and die, but only to be replaced by another philosophy glorifying the qualities of the herd. It lies not in the nature of the herd to live according to elitist ideals—their nature is to be cogwheels in the machinery of society, and the fact they follow a philosophy which glorifies this quality is aesthetically nauseating to the heretic, but still necessary for society to function.
The Satanist is an observer of society—to him, the world is like a stage, in relation to which he chooses sometimes to be a spectator, other times a participant, according to his will. He can watch from the outside and laugh, cry, sigh, or applaud depending on the effect the scenery has on his emotions; or he can throw himself into the game for the thrill; but his nature is always that of the watcher, the artist. He is not overly concerned with changing society, for his commitment to humanity is minimal.
So no, I do not bother to battle against Christianity. In what ways does it affect me? It fills me with disgust. But I feel no urge to take the role of a Messiah, teaching the blind how they should live.
ULVER
Garm: There is no logic in actively pursuing Christianity for a Satanist because this in no way benefits him. The “Christlings” legislate for the weak and worthless with humility, charity, subordination, guilt, and the taking of the world’s burdens upon one’s shoulders as their agenda. This is extremely easy for one of the Devil’s party to take advantage of. The fact that they preach such degenerate morals prevents them, with a few unimportant exceptions, from being able to put out the emancipated spiritual fire in him. Instead they try by foolish means to talk him into changing his mind. Hah!
The cold, calculating scrupulousness of the heretic mind has infinite possibilities in such a society, and can but revel in cruel, selfish ecstasy. In this picture the “Christlings” are masochists, whilst he is the sadist holding the whip. If he was to set out and convert everyone to his line of thought, his world would look quite different, and we would no longer be able to touch the stars undisturbed. In my eyes this is nothing to strive for.
An appropriate example of how such futile aspirations may end is the case of Varg Vikernes: a neo-Viking martyr. A prophet of the ego who paradoxically enough chose to be the Jesus of his ideals, and now must suffer for it behind the walls of spleen. I have much respect for this man’s conviction and courage, but not his sense of reality.
The picture of perhaps a hundred militant “Satanists” believing they can start a war against Christianity with Heavy Metal as their spiritual banner is pathetic. I choose to oppose Christianity by growing in my knowledge rather than waste my life on illusive dreams of a righteous world returning to the laws of nature. In our age the human brain is too complex to work after such systems anyway, and I see it as our destiny to be separated from them. Mankind has taken temporary control over these powers by means of technical intelligence, but soon enough this is what will blow us all into oblivion—and the reckless force behind this evolution is the triumphant mark of Satan.
All this said, I mind in no way attacks on Christianity, but I believe it is killing itself more rapidly than any church burner could ever dream of doing. After all, we live in the end of the second millennium and most people are enlightened to such a degree that they are capable of smelling rotten fish.
OUTSIDERS LOOKING IN
As the most influential form of music to have ever openly called itself “Satanic,” Norwegian Black Metal is unique. In an effort to understand some of the philosophical and spiritual qualities inherent to this peculiarly Scandinavian manifestation, we spoke to two outside observers who wrote thoughtful commentaries on the subject in the press—commentaries which went beyond the scandalized headlines of the tabloid papers. Both men are contributors to Norway’s cultural newspaper Morgenbladet.
Simen Midgaard is a freelance writer and author with a Master’s Degree in the Humanities. Midgaard also founded the Oslo branch of the Ordo Templi Orientis, the occult order of Aleister Crowley, in 1984. He resigned from the leadership in 1993. Midgaard has kindly allowed us to print an English translation of his essay on Black Metal Satanism that appeared in Morgenbladet as Appendix III of this book. It is one of the most astute commentaries on the subject that has been published in Norway.
A number of Black Metal bands pay homage to Crowley in their imagery, and a few members of the Norwegian scene contacted the O.T.O. between 1992–93 seeking information. Simen Midgaard became more familiar with the Black Metal scene when he conducted an interview with Ihsahn of Emperor for Morgenbladet. In the course of our discussion with him, Midgaard presented an intriguing theory which traced the “medieval-style Satanism” of early Norwegian Black Metal back to a series of lurid newspaper exposés written about the O.T.O. and Satanism in 1990–91. This was shortly before Black Metal began to coalesce as a viable music genre in Norway. As our research progressed, we found that other observers besides Midgaard had arrived at similar theories regarding a possible link between sensationalist press coverage and the Norwegian Black Metal attitudes which would follow.
The conversation with Simen Midgaard is followed by an interview with Pål Mathiesen, a writer on theological issues for Morgenbladet, and a professed Christian. As one would expect, the official response of the Church in Norway to the arsons and attacks perpetrated by Black Metallers was a negative one, but it consisted of little more than outraged statements about the “shocking rise of Satanism among youth.” Mathiesen, as a bit of outsider, is able to forsake such simplistic rhetoric in his comments, and his thoughtful conclusions may surprise even the ardent Satanists.
SIMEN MIDGAARD
WHAT IS THE CONNECTION BETWEEN BLACK METAL AND SATANISM?
I don’t see a very strong relation to any tradition of the world when it comes to Black Metal and Satanism; I don’t see any real heritage. All this Satanism among the youths began some time after there was a “revelation” of Satanists in the O.T.O. It began in Dagbladet [one of Norway’s leading tabloids], and they were speaking about cannibalism and sacrificing babies and all this medieval nonsense.
THEY LAUNCHED AN EXPOSÉ CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE O.T.O.?
Yes, they did. It was completely unfounded. This campaign was not only directed against the O.T.O., but also against some imagined Satanists. It was started by a policeman in around 1990 or ’91. His name was Kobbhaug.
IT WAS A CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALIST SCARE?
Yes—and this is the source of most of this youth Satanism we see in Norway; they have no other ideology. They may have also heard something of Satanism from LaVey; I know his book sold fairly well in Oslo. Now they have stopped the sale of it [the Satanic Bible], because of this thing with the Count. It’s a little childish, if you ask me, because I think LaVey is quite contradictory to everything the Count stands for. This [LaVeyan Satanism] is the real Satanism, this sort of humanism under a black mask. They are standing up for individual freedom towards religious preference, and still trying to maintain a sort of religious context in their lives. I can’t see anything �
�evil” about it.
WAS THERE ANYTHING GOING ON WITH SATANISM IN NORWAY BEFORE THE EXPOSÉ YOU REFER TO?
This kind of Satanism which the Count stands for resembles so much the kind of Satanism that was propagated in the newspapers a few years before he came out into the light, and I think he was influenced by it, and the whole Black Metal community was also influenced by that kind of propaganda.
IS THERE ANY SERIOUS TRADITION OF SATANISM IN NORWAY?
A kind of tradition of Satanism does in fact exist in Norway. You had it in the 1890’s with Przybyszewski and Dagny Juel, and the clique around Edvard Munch, the painter, and around August Strindberg. I do think you had small groups in the western part of Scandinavia which practiced a form of Satanism; at least you had it in Denmark. It was a sort of Satanism, but nothing resembling the status of this “propaganda.”
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