Coughlin turned in his seat and put his arm on the back of it.
"You haven't met Sergeant Holloran, have you, Matt?"
"What do you say, Payne?" the driver said.
"Thanks for the ride," Matt said.
"You're McFadden, right?" Holloran asked, turning his head to look at McFadden. "The guy who ran down the guy who shot Dutch Moffitt?"
"Yeah. How are you, Sergeant?"
"While we're doing this, Matty," Coughlin said, "and be-fore I forget it, Tom Lenihan called and asked if it would be all right if he went to the hospital, and I told him you had enough visitors, but he said to tell you hello."
"Thank you."
"There's been another development, one I just heard about, which is the reason I came to the hospital myself," Coughlin said.
Bullshit, Uncle Denny. You wanted to be here.
"What?"
"Stillwell is going to run you past the Grand Jury."
"I don't know what that means."
"Once they take a case before the Grand Jury, and the Grand Jury declines to issue a true bill, that's it."
"I don't know what that means, either."
"It means the facts of the case will be presented to a Grand Jury, who will decide that there is no grounds to take you to trial."
"That doesn't always happen?"
"Normally, in a case like this, the district attorney will just make the decision, and that would be the end of it. But with Armando C. Giacomo the defense counsel-"
"Who's-what was that name?"
"Armando C. Giacomo. Very good criminal lawyer. Half a dozen one way, six the other if he or Colonel Mawson is the best there is in Philadelphia."
"You never heard of him? "Charley McFadden asked, genuinely surprised, which earned him a no from Matt and a dirty, keep-out-of-this look from Coughlin.
"The assistant DA, Stillwell, or maybe Tom Callis, the DA himself, is probably worried that Giacomo will start hollering 'police whitewash' or 'cover-up.' Giacomo couldn't do that if you had been before the Grand Jury and they hadn't returned a true bill. You understand all this?"
"I think so."
"It gets a little more complicated," Coughlin said. "I called your father as soon as I heard about this, and he said Colonel Mawson would be in the Roundhouse for your interview."
"Good."
Whatever the hell this Grand Jury business is all about-it never came up when I shot Fletcher-I am very unlikely to get screwed with J. Dunlop Mawson hovering protectively over me.
"Maybe good and maybe not," Coughlin said. "If you had done something wrong, then having Mawson there to protect your rights would be fine. So let me ask you again, Matty, you already told me, but let me ask you again: You didn't shoot at Stevens until he had shot at you, right?"
"Right."
"Did you shoot at him before or after you got hit?"
"After."
"You're absolutely sure about that?"
"Absolutely."
"And that's what Mickey O'Hara will say?"
"He was there. He saw what happened."
"That being the case, you have done absolutely nothing wrong," Coughlin said.
"I already had that figured out," Matt said, which earned him a pained look.
"Let me tell you how this works, Matty," Coughlin said. "You have civil rights, even if you are a cop-"
Well, that's nice to know.
"-in other words, when you are interviewed by Homicide, you don't have to say anything at all, and you have the right to have an attorney present. Miranda. You understand?"
Matt nodded.
"Some cops, if they're worried, will want a lawyer. The FOP will provide one. If you figure you need one, you could have an FOP lawyer. Or Colonel Mawson-"
What the hell is he leading up to?
"-but on the other hand, you don't have to have a lawyer. Just answer the questions in the interview as honestly as you can."
"Are you telling me I shouldn't ask for a lawyer?"
"I'm telling you that Armando C. Giacomo, if you have a lawyer, especially if you have Colonel Mawson, is probably going to try to twist that around so it looks as if you were reluctant to tell the Homicide people what really happened, to make it look as if the only reason you didn't get indicted by the Grand Jury is because Mawson was there when you were interviewed."
"You are telling me I should tell Colonel Mawson 'thanks, but no thanks'?"
"I'm telling you that you have to make up your mind what's best for you and the Police Department."
Jesus H. Christ!
***
STATEMENT OF: P/O Matthew Mark Payne, Badge 7701
DATE AND TIME: 1105 A.M. Jan. 5, 1973 PLACE: Homicide Bureau, Police Admin. Bldg.
CONCERNING: Death by Shooting of Charles David Stevens, aka Abu Ben Mohammed
IN PRESENCE OF: Captain Henry C. Quaire; Detective Kenneth J. Summers, Badge 4505
INTERROGATED BY: Det. Alonzo Kramer, Badge 1967
RECORDED BY: Mrs. Jo-Ellen Garcia-Romez
I am: Detective Kramer of the Homicide Bu-reau
We are questioning you concerning: your involvement in the fatal shooting of Charles David Stevens, also known as Abu Ben Mohammed. We have a duty to explain to you and to warn you that you have the following legal rights:
A. You have the right to remain silent and do not have to say anything at all.
B. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court.
C. You have a right to talk to a lawyer of your own choice before we ask you any questions, and also to have a lawyer here with you while we ask questions.
D. If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, and you want one, we will see that you have a lawyer provided to you, free of charge, before we ask you any questions.
E. If you are willing to give us a statement, you have a right to stop anytime you wish.
***
1. Q. Do you understand that you have a right to keep quiet and do not have to say anything at all?
A. Yes, I do.
2. Q. Do you understand that anything you say can and will be used against you?
A. Yes, I do.
3. Q. Do you want to remain silent?
A. I'll tell you anything you want to know.
4. Q. Do you understand you have a right to talk to a lawyer before we ask you any questions?
A. Yes, I do.
5. Q. Do you understand that if you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, and you want one, we will not ask you any questions until a lawyer is appointed for you free of charge?
A. Yes, I do.
6. Q. Do you want to talk to a lawyer at this time, or to have a lawyer with you while we ask you questions?
A. I don't want a lawyer, thank you.
7. Q. Are you willing to answer questions of your own free will, without force or fear, and without any threats and promises having been made to you?
A. Yes, I am.
8. Q. State your name, city of residence, and employment?
A. Matthew M. Payne, I live in Philadel-phia, and I am a police officer.
9. Q. State your badge number and duty assignment?
A. Badge Number 7701. Special Opera-tions Division.
10. Q. What is your specific assignment?
A. I am administrative assistant to In-spector Wohl.
11. Q. That is Staff Inspector Peter Wohl, commanding officer of the Special Operations Division?
A. That's right.
12 .Q. Were you on duty at approximately five A.M. January 4 of this year?
A. Yes, I was.
13. Q. What was the nature of your duty at that time and place?
A. Inspector Wohl ordered me to accompany Mr. Mickey O'Hara of the Bulletin during an arrest that was taking place.
14. Q. That is Mr. Michael J. O'Hara, a po-lice reporter employed by the Philadelphia Bulletin?
A. That's correct.
15. Q. Were you in uniform and armed at this time?
A. I was in civilian clothing. I was a
rmed.
16. Q. Why were you in civilian clothing?
A. I am in a plainclothes assignment.
17. Q. You do not then normally wear a uniform on duty?
A. No, sir.
18. Q. With what type weapon were you armed?
A. A Smith & Wesson Undercover revolver.
19. Q. That is a five-shot.38 Special caliber short-nosed revolver?
A. Correct.
20. Q. Was that weapon issued to you by the Police Department for use in your official duties?
A. No.
21. Q. Where did you get that revolver?
A. Colosimo's Gun Store.
22. Q. That revolver is your personal prop-erty?
A. Yes.
23. Q. Have you been issued a revolver or other weapon by the Police Department for use in your duties?
A. Yes.
24. Q. Since you were on duty, why were you not carrying that weapon?
A. I have permission to carry the Under-cover.
25. Q. From whom?
A. From Inspector Wohl.
26. Q. For what purpose?
A. It's easier to conceal, more concealable, than the Police Special.
27. Q. The Police Special being the.38 Spe-cial Caliber Smith & Wesson Military and Po-lice revolver with four-inch barrel issued to you by the Police Department?
A. Yes.
28. Q. Have you undergone any official instruction, testing, and/or qualification involving the Smith & Wesson Undercover revolver with which you were armed on Janu-ary 3 of this year?
A. I went through the prescribed course at the Police Firearms Range before I was authorized to carry the Undercover revolver.
29. Q. With what type of cartridge was your Undercover revolver loaded at the time and date we're talking about?
A. Standard Remington.38 Special car-tridges, with a 158-grain round nose lead bul-let.
30. Q. Where did you get that ammunition?
A: It was issued to me.
31. Q. It is the standard ammunition pre-scribed by regulation for the Undercover revolver?
A. So far as I know, for both of them. The Military and Police and the Undercover.
32. Q. What were your specific orders in regard to Mr. O'Hara?
A. Inspector Wohl told me to take Mr. O'Hara to Lieutenant Suffern.
33. Q. That is Lieutenant Edward J. Suf-fern, who is assigned to Special Operations?
A. Yes, sir.
34. Q. Go on.
A. Inspector Wohl told me to take Mr. O'Hara to Lieutenant Suffern, and to tell him that he had authorized Mr. O'Hara to accom-pany Lieutenant Suffern during the arrest, but that Mr. O'Hara was not to enter the building where Stevens was until he had been arrested.
35. Q. Who is Stevens?
A. Charles David Stevens. Also known as Abu Ben Mohammed. A warrant had been is-sued for his arrest in connection with an armed robbery and murder at Goldblatt's fur-niture store.
36. Q. Were you charged with serving this warrant?
A. No. It was to be served by a Homicide detective, backed up by men under Lieutenant Suffern.
37. Q. You took Mr. O'Hara to Lieutenant Suffern?
A. Yes, I did.
38. Q. And then what happened?
A. Lieutenant Suffern said that Mr. O'Hara and myself should accompany him. When the time came, we got in his car and went with him.
39. Q. Where did you go with Lieutenant Suffern in his car?
A. To the alley behind Stevens's house.
40. Q. I now show you a map of the Frankford area of Philadelphia. Would you please mark on the map where you were taken by Lieutenant Suffern?
A. All right.
(See Map marked as Attachment I.)
41. Q. And then what happened?
A. Mr. O'Hara got out of the car.
42. Q. Why, if you know, did Mr. O'Hara get out of the car?
A. He said he didn't want his camera lens to become fogged as he was afraid it might if he jumped out of the car when the arrest was made.
43. Q. Go on.
A. I got out of the car too.
44. Q. Did you have Lieutenant Suffern's permission to do so?
A. My orders were to accompany Mr. O'Hara. So I got out of the car too.
45. Q. What comment, if any, did Lieuten-ant Suffern have about either of you getting out of the car?
A. I seem to recall he told Mickey, Mr. O'Hara, to stick close to the wall.
46. Q. What, if anything, did you or Mr. O'Hara do at this time?
A. Mr. O'Hara wiped the lens of his cam-era with his handkerchief.
47. Q. And what, if anything, happened next?
A. I heard noise, what sounded like wood breaking, in the alley in the direction of Stevens's house. After a moment, I detected movement in the alley.
48. Q. Had you, at that time, drawn your weapon?
A. Not drawn it. I had taken it from my ankle holster and put it in my overcoat pocket.
49. Q. Your weapon, was it in sight or not?
A. No. It was not.
50. Q. Why did you take your weapon from its holster and put it in your pocket?
A. Because I thought I could get at it eas-ier that way if I needed it.
51. Q. Then you anticipated having need of your weapon?
A. No. I was just being careful.
(Chief Inspectors Lowenstein and Coughlin became additional witnesses to the interroga-tion at this point.)
52. Q. Did Mr. O'Hara see you take your weapon from your ankle holster?
A. I don't know if he did or not.
53. Q. How about Lieutenant Suffern?
A. I don't know. I don't believe so.
54. Q. Go on.
A. Where were we?
55. Q. You and Mr. O'Hara were in the alley, you said. You said you detected move-ment.
A. Okay. I realized that what I was seeing was a man coming in my direction. So I called to him to stop.
56. Q. Did you identify yourself as a police officer?
A. I said, Stop. Police officer.
57. Q. At this time, did you recognize the person in the alley as Mr. Charles D. Stevens?
A. No.
58. Q. Had you, previous to this occasion, ever seen Mr. Charles D. Stevens?
A. No.
59. Q. Had you ever seen a photograph of Mr. Stevens and/or were you familiar with his description?
A. No.
60. Q. Then you did not recognize the in-dividual coming toward you as Mr. Stevens?
A. No. But it didn't matter. It was too dark. All I saw was somebody coming down the alley.
61. Q. But you shot at him. Why did you shoot at him?
A. Because he had shot at me, because he had shot me. Jesus Christ!
62. Q. (Captain Quaire) Take it easy, Payne.
A. Yes, sir. Sorry.
63. Q. (Detective Kramer) Did you see any weapon in Mr. Stevens's hand?
A. Not until he was down.
64. Q. How did you know he, Stevens, was shooting at you?
A. He was the only one in the alley. I didn't know who it was until later. I saw flashes. I was hit.
65. Q. What was the response of the indi-vidual you now know to be Charles David Ste-vens to your order, Stop. Police officer?
A. He screamed, Get out of my way, motherfucker.
66. Q. Those precise words?
A. That's a direct quote. For some rea-son, I remember it very clearly.
67. Q. (Captain Quaire) Payne, spare us the sarcasm.
A. Yes, sir.
68. Q. (Detective Kramer)You said, screamed. That suggests pain.
A. Strike, screamed. Insert, shouted an-grily.
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