ANDY
And it’ll turn green in three hours.
GROUCHO
Well, I got the gold watch. Chico immediately hocked it.
ANDY
No wonder it turned green! You think Chico would have hocked his Oscar?
GROUCHO
Yeah. He could have hocked it. Or he would have lost it in a card game. Or he would have given it to some dame.
ANDY
While we’re on that subject. I would like to say a word about oral contraception.
GROUCHO
As long as you keep it to just one word.
ANDY
I had an extremely good case of oral contraception about two weeks ago. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said no.
I
Maybe it wasn’t her bedtime.
ANDY
It’s really a Woody Allen joke.
GROUCHO
Remember when you used to come here, Steve?
ANDY
I’m Andy, Groucho. He always calls me that, “Steve.” Steve’s my older brother.
GROUCHO
His older brother is Amos.
ANDY
Groucho gave me one of his books, and he wrote in it “To Andy, from Amos.” Anyway, I used to come over and throw water on the French poodles. De Soto and Rainbow. Those were the names. But Groucho didn’t mind. As a matter of fact, in a letter he told me to. He said, “Come over and throw water on the French poodles. Hoping this reaches you by pony express.”
GROUCHO
I remember when I was in Atlantic City…
ANDY
I was there, wasn’t I? Wasn’t I with you that time?
GROUCHO
Were you with me?
ANDY
I was with you in Atlantic City.
GROUCHO
Not this time.
ANDY
I was with you, though, in the Santa Clausland Parade.
GROUCHO
You were?
ANDY
Yeah. In my mom’s stomach. Steve was there with Melinda, and my mom was pregnant with me. I was on my way. Then I popped out. She’s been sorry ever since.
GROUCHO
You don’t want to hear about Atlantic City?
ANDY
I don’t know if I do. I think I know what story this is. I think half of it’s myth.
GROUCHO
When I was in Atlantic City, I was living in a very crummy boardinghouse. And all we had to eat was fish. We had fish for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. By Thursday we couldn’t eat any more fish. We were sick of fish, and I don’t like fish anyhow. So there was this fellow selling roast beef sandwiches on the boardwalk. It was ten cents a slice, but we didn’t have any money. So I swapped my watch for eight sandwiches of roast beef. When I gave him the watch, it slipped and fell into the ocean. But we had already eaten the sandwiches. Anyhow, we were gonna get paid Saturday. But we were two more days without money and we had to go back to eating fish.
ANDY
Do you remember, Groucho, when you ordered the bowl of noodles at Trader Vic’s? We used to go there for birthdays, like mine on June 26.
GROUCHO
Your father’s is July 21.
ANDY
Groucho would always complain but, for some reason, the next time, it would be Trader Vic’s. Well, this one time we went there and Groucho just ordered a bowl of noodles, “a bowl of noodles and a glass of water.” The waiter comes and serves the bowl of noodles to Groucho, who says, “Take these and dump them on the chef’s head.” Do you remember that, Groucho?
GROUCHO
No.
ANDY
Once I took Groucho to the doctor and we were stuck in traffic, and there was a hippyish guy on a bike stuck next to us. Grouch rolls down the window and says, “You need a shave.” Another time, I was with a guy I knew who had fairly long hair, and I was with him and these two girls when we ran into Groucho. Groucho said to me, in front of them, “Oh, I see you’re with three girlfriends.” Do you remember that, Groucho?
GROUCHO
No.
ANDY
Groucho used to try to break me up when we’d be someplace somber where you were supposed to be quiet and respectful. He’d make faces and look at me till I laughed. He still can do it. (To Groucho) I saw Nanny the other day.
GROUCHO
I knew your grandmother before you did. I knew her before your grandfather did. She was eighteen years old then. (Explaining to June) She’s Grace Kahn. She was married to Gus Kahn. They had the same name. He was great. (Groucho sings a few lines of “Oh, How That Woman Could Cook!”)
ANDY
My grandmother, Grace, I’ve always been real close with. I went to Europe with her when I was fifteen, and I’ve been on a lot of trips with her. I remember when I told Groucho we were going on that trip to Europe. Maybe I was fourteen. He said, “Be careful. Take plenty of condoms.”
JUNE BANKER
How old is your grandmother now?
ANDY
About as old as Groucho, I guess. But she doesn’t seem old. You know, we all went out last night for my mom’s birthday, and we went to Shelly’s Manhole to hear the jazz thing. It was kind of boring, but my grandmother puts up with it. I know she didn’t really enjoy it, but it was kind of funny to see her there. I usually take her my songs; if she likes it, I know it’s good, because she’s usually right. She just happened to like those two that the publisher took. They let me record them.
GROUCHO
He’s more advanced than his father for his age.
ANDY
You know, I guess my grandmother doesn’t understand a lot of the lyrics. I’ve shown her not just my stuff, but lyrics of just anybody’s. I showed her some of the Elton John stuff. She thought that was a little weird. You know, coming from Tin Pan Alley.
GROUCHO
I met John Elton.
I
Groucho had lunch with Elton John, only he called him “John Elton.”
ANDY
You know, for a while, Elton John and Woody Allen were my two idols.
GROUCHO
Which is not exactly the same thing.
ANDY
I’ve found that you have to sort of discard your idols.
I
Even Groucho?
ANDY
That’s a whole different thing. I think everybody sort of identifies with their parents or grandparents. I don’t care what business they’re in. Everybody tells me I sort of identify with my dad, or try to, which is probably true.
I
(To Andy) What about your childhood as “Groucho’s grandson”?
ANDY
You mean with Lois [Arthur’s second wife] and all that? I was young—about ten—but I was around for all that. But you’re too young to really realize it. You’re at that age where you’d like to cash in on all the goings-on. You know, you try to get as many toys out of each set of parents as possible. And that’s about it. It’s funny, when I read Son of Groucho it sort of brought some of that back.
I
Do you remember your grandmother, Groucho’s first wife, Ruth?
ANDY
I remember Ruth. I liked her a lot. I used to always go over to her house. We would have Christmas, and we’d go over there with Dad and the presents and everything. I don’t really remember Kay at all. I saw Eden the other night at the Academy. She came up to Groucho at the Governor’s dinner, just as we came in.
GROUCHO
You mean the Governor’s balls. She said to me, “Congratulations.”
I
And what did you say?
GROUCHO
I said, “I deserved it.”
ANDY
Once I was in Nate ’n’ Al’s delicatessen when Groucho was there, and I went up to him and said, “Hi!” He said something like, “I’m real ashamed to see you here.” And I said, “Well, that’s exactly how I feel about you.” He seemed to think that was hilarious or s
omething and he laughed.
GROUCHO
I must have been pickled. Dill-pickled.
ANDY
You never laugh at any of my jokes.
GROUCHO
You never tell any.
ANDY
Once I did some Woody Allen jokes, and you liked them. I just kind of ad-libbed it. That’s what you usually have to do. You know, Groucho tells these jokes, but he doesn’t seem to get any of them when you tell them. Or he doesn’t seem to laugh. Well, I can understand him not laughing.
GROUCHO
I don’t know any jokes.
ANDY
(To June) It’s too bad you didn’t get to see those turn-of-the-century French films. They were really great. The three of us went. It was all silent, except when Groucho said something like “I’ve gotta take a leak.”
GROUCHO
No matter how rich you are…
ANDY
Groucho, what was that one you liked so much?
GROUCHO
The drunkard. That was funny.
I
(To Andy) Henri Langlois thought it was very funny when he came here for tea and you introduced yourself to him as “Groucho’s grandson.”
ANDY
Nobody introduced us, so I said, “I’m Groucho Marx’s grandson. I might as well say it. Everybody else does.” Sometimes it seems that the most interesting thing about me is that I’m Groucho Marx’s grandson. It took me a while to get used to that.
I
Did you?
ANDY
No.
JUNE BANKER
Does it ever bother you being the grandson of such a famous man?
ANDY
Well, I used to try to compare myself, like, with Groucho or even with my dad. Then I sort of realized that I’m kind of young. But you can’t, like, put yourself in their perspective when they were twenty years old. You know, even Marvin Hamlisch is, like, eight years older than I am, and I’d be embarrassed to play the piano for him. I have a lot to learn, I know. When I was younger, I used to wonder if I could measure up to the Marx Brothers. Then, I realized maybe I wasn’t ever going to have that kind of success, but I didn’t have to. I said to myself, “So I’m not going to be that great. I can live with it. I’ll be myself and do the best I can do.”
I
Who are some of the people you remember meeting over the years at Groucho’s?
ANDY
Let me think…well, I wasn’t here much when anybody was here, mostly family. I guess Irwin Allen was one guy who really impressed me. The first words I ever said were “Iry’s car.” Now whenever he sees me, he yells, “Iry’s car!” He had a big convertible, and the top went down. I thought it was a monster. I can still remember lying on our driveway—I didn’t start talking until I was four—and that was the first thing I said: “Iry’s car.” So he must have really impressed me. Groucho, I saw Billy Marx today, and he had a bumper sticker on his car, and it said, “The right to arm bears.” And there was a picture of a bear holding a gun.
NURSE JULIE
Why do you always say Billy Marx instead of just Billy? Groucho and everyone here always says Billy Marx or Andy Marx instead of Billy or Andy.
ANDY
Well, there are so many Bills in the world. And there are lots of Andys—Raggedy Andy and me—but there’s only one Groucho.
GROUCHO
(Looking at his Groucho watch) It’s twenty-five minutes to Groucho. I’ve gotta go brush my fangs. (He gets up from the table)
ANDY
I’ve gotta be leaving too.
GROUCHO
(To Andy) Goodbye, Steve.
ANDY
(To Groucho) Goodbye, Bob.
NORMAN KRASNA
Besides being a famous playwright, Norman Krasna is a producer, writer, and director of films, as well. Among his stage successes are Dear Ruth, which is based on the Groucho Marx family, and John Loves Mary. His record as a screen playwright is just as distinguished:
He wrote Fury, Fritz Lang’s first American film, the screenplay for Alfred Hitchcock’s Mr. and Mrs. Smith, and the original screenplay for René Clair’s first Hollywood film, The Flame of New Orleans. For Princess O’Rourke, Krasna won an Oscar for the best original screenplay.
I had the opportunity to talk with him in New York when he arrived for the opening of his play We Interrupt This Program. He and his wife, Erle, met with me in their hotel apartment and at the Oyster Bar of the Plaza Hotel. I also went with him to a preview of his play at the Ambassador Theatre on Forty-ninth Street, and on the way there and back, we talked about Groucho. We also spoke later in Switzerland, where he has been living for a number of years.
As well as being one of Groucho’s best friends, Norman Krasna collaborated with Groucho on the screenplay of The King and the Chorus Girl and the play Time for Elizabeth.
I
What was it like collaborating with Groucho?
NORMAN KRASNA
I did the work at the typewriter while Groucho paced around and talked. The only way I can concentrate is by facing a blank wall. So I would sit facing the wall, twisting paper clips into Jimmy Durante’s profile. Groucho kept talking all the time, usually about other things.
Groucho had an incredible repertory of jokes to draw on, but he didn’t just use old jokes. We were working on The King and the Chorus Girl, and talking about a scene in which there’s a fellow in the royal box, and a comedian comes out and tells a lot of jokes. The king is someone who has heard everything, and so is jaded. He can sleep with his eyes open!
I said to Groucho, “We need some used jokes. Can you tell me some jokes?” Groucho said, “About what? Tell me the subject.” I didn’t have anything in mind, but we’d just been talking about how I’d been losing my hair, and Groucho had recommended I have some scalp massages, so I said, “The subject is hair,” and he started. He said six or seven jokes in a row about hair, like “Hair today, gone tomorrow,” “My hair is getting thin, so who needs fat hair,” “How do you save your hair? In a box,” “How do you avoid falling hair? You step aside.” And he went on and reeled off just about any joke anyone ever thought of about hair. He wouldn’t use any of these, of course, but I realized that he had a wonderful memory, and he went on to make up his own.
Time for Elizabeth was written over a number of years. Neither Groucho nor I was in any special hurry. Originally the part was for Groucho, but we did it with Otto Kruger. The lines were written to have been Groucho’s, and I think the play would have been a success on Broadway if Groucho had done it. Groucho got an entirely different reaction when he finally did Time For Elizabeth. Nobody else could get that reaction with the same lines.
I
Wyatt Cooper, who played with Groucho in Time for Elizabeth, told me that Groucho ad-libbed a great deal.
NORMAN KRASNA
Yes, he did. But Time for Elizabeth was quite strictly written. Groucho always thinks of himself as a writer, and likes writers as his friends, especially if they’re good. But I think he’s even more of a performer than a writer.
I
He’s always told me he’s proudest of being a writer.
NORMAN KRASNA
Yes, true. I’ll never forget after the preview of The King and the Chorus Girl when we were walking out of the theatre. Standing there was Mervyn LeRoy, the director, who said, “Did you like it?” Groucho just said, “Coney Island,” in a disgusted tone and walked off. He was referring to a line in the film, which meant that he hated it. Groucho wasn’t afraid of anyone. He never was easily inhibited. I remember being in an elevator with him, and there was a man in the elevator with us who kept staring at Groucho and who was engrossed in listening to every word we said. I was going to the theatre, and Groucho asked me what play I was going to see, and I told him. He said, “That’s not much of a play unless this guy wrote it,” meaning the man who was hanging on our every word. The man got out at the next floor. Do you know about the time Shufro took Groucho to Wall
Street?
I
I met him once with Groucho. Salwyn Shufro.
NORMAN KRASNA
Right. They’re still friends, and Shufro’s been his broker all these years. Well, this story happened back in the thirties. Shufro took Groucho into the stock exchange, and Groucho started singing “When Irish Eyes Are Smiling.” Nobody laughed. They were just shocked and perfectly still. Then Groucho made a short speech explaining. “In one day here, I lost $250,000. And now I’m going to sing ‘When Irish Eyes Are Smiling.’” He did, and they loved it.
I
Has Groucho changed much over the years?
NORMAN KRASNA
He used to be more irreverent about himself.
I
He still is very much so.
NORMAN KRASNA
Not as much as he used to be. Now he might get upset if he didn’t get the right table in a restaurant. Before, he wouldn’t ever have taken himself that seriously. But Groucho never did complain much. Not then, not now. He’s not a complainer.
I
It’s the same thing now. He has health problems. But you don’t think about them because he doesn’t. Or I should say he doesn’t appear to.
NORMAN KRASNA
Did you know Dear Ruth was about the Marx family? Groucho is the judge, Groucho’s wife Ruth is the Ruth in the play, and the children are Arthur and Miriam. Poor Miriam and her liberal causes! That family really meant a lot to me. I practically lived with them for a while as part of their family. They made me feel so much at home until I was going there for dinner several nights a week.
I
When did you first meet Groucho?
NORMAN KRASNA
I don’t remember exactly when I first met him, but what was important was the first time he took an interest in me. It was at the Garden of Allah. I had been a journalist, and I was working in publicity at Warners. Arthur Caesar was there holding court. He was a wit of his time, sort of challenging people verbally and insulting them.
Well, I was a nobody and you couldn’t crush me. I guess this was before Louder, Please! So he said, “You wanna have a duel of wits?” and I said, “All right, but if we’re gonna have a duel of wits, we’ve gotta set up some rules.” There were about four stock phrases he’d been using over and over, and I said, “You can’t use any of these,” and named them, the four things he’d been repeatedly using.
Well, he’d been drinking, so it wasn’t quite fair, but Groucho noticed me, and I guess he thought I was a witty kid. He invited me to his home for dinner. After that I was there all the time. I was a bachelor, and I was free, and they had me there to dinner several times a week. It was like my home.
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