"No, I am a Doctor of Divinity!"
"I see, and what kinds of courses to you take to get a doctor of divinity?"
"Theology, biblical studies, Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and church history."
"History of all churches? Muslims? Hindus? Buddhists? Judaism?"
"No, just Christianity."
"What formal training to you have in psychology Dr. Dobson?"
"I took an introductory course as an undergraduate. A bunch of malarkey if you ask me."
"What about sociology?"
"One semester, statistics, that kind of thing."
"Anthropology"
"A bunch of nonsense, they didn't even try to teach creation. Just that Evolution nonsense."
"What exactly makes you an expert in the Family?"
"I have a wonderful wife, two children and several grandchildren. I have a successful family."
"I see, so your expertise is based entirely on a single case study?"
The jury giggled
"As a young pastor, I ministered to many families in my church. It was a small church, but I got a good understanding!"
"I see, and what makes you an expert in homosexuality? Are you a homosexual?"
The jury giggled.
"Of course not!"
"Are any of your children or grandchildren homosexual or transgendered?"
"Absolutely Not!"
"I suppose if they were, they wouldn't tell you"
"Objection!"
"Sustained"
"Dr. Dobson, do you have ANY experience at all with regard to homosexuals? Actually treating them? Giving them counseling?"
"I have had guests on my show who have been cured by conversion therapy"
"So these men were exclusively attracted to men?"
"No, they realized that they also had some attraction to women?"
"I see, so they were bisexual, and you shifted their preference from men to women by - by doing what exactly?"
"Oh I didn't do it, the places that do that use a variety of techniques, counseling, therapy, medications."
"Do those techniques include shock therapy, torture, induced medical insanity with drugs like LSD and epinephrine, sleep deprivation, and intimidation?"
"Those elements have been discussed off-air, but we never discuss them on-air."
"I see, so you trick people into seeking a cure for their children, thinking it's just going to be some friendly conversations, but not knowing that their kids will be strapped to a table, shocked, then strapped to a chair and pumped full of fear inducing drugs, and tortured with electrodes in the penis and anus?"
"Objection!"
"Overruled, answer the question Dr. Dobson!"
"Yes, that's part of it. For extreme cases, there is also whippings and caning!"
The jury gasped, horrified.
"I see. What about your experience with Transsexuals?"
"I've had a guest who claimed he could use similar techniques with transsexuals, he also added anal rape to make him hate the idea of being a girl."
"How effective is this?"
"I have no idea."
"So Dr. Dobson, you are admitting under oath that you have no qualifications to treat homosexuals or transsexuals, and yet on your radio program, you advocate treatment programs that traumatize, torture, and terrorize their victims, without their parents’ knowledge? AND, you have no idea whether these methods are effective or whether they are killing the "patients"?"
"I suppose you could say that."
"I have actual records for these treatment techniques, those treated using these techniques have a 95% suicide rate, most had to be lobotomized to keep them from killing themselves."
"I have not seen that research"
"So, Dr. Dobson, you are using your radio show to lure parents into putting their kids in programs that will lead to their children's deaths?"
"I can't confirm that."
"Dr. Dobson, you say there are only boys and girls, and there is no in between or moving from one to the other?"
"Yes, it's against the laws of nature?"
The prosecutor held up a picture of a flowers in a field "How many colors do you see Dr. Dobson?"
"I don't know, thousands?"
"Good, I was afraid you would only see black and white, not even shades of grey."
"That's just silly!"
"Yes, however, you advocate persecution of anyone who experiences some shade of grey in their gender, as someone who is demonically possessed?"
Dr. Dobson just froze.
"It's fine DOCTOR Dobson, you are obviously not qualified to answer that question, so I won't make you do so. No more questions at this time."
Defense decided not to redirect.
Conversion Therapy Documented
"Your honor, I would like to submit this document, which describes in detail, complete with illustrations, the methods used in so-called conversion therapy. This is to give the Jury a better understanding of the overall concepts."
Defense objected on the basis that it was inflammatory.
The Judge frowned. "I told you that I would grant more latitude to the prosecutor, you're the one who wanted to make this a freedom of religion issue. You can't blame the prosecutor for looking under the rocks."
Pat Robertson CBN
"My next Witness is Pat Robertson; he will be testifying via video conference"
It took a few minutes to set up the equipment. CBN had provided a satellite truck and feed for the set up, and set it up as soon as they were queued.
"Thank you for giving us your valuable time. Please tell us what you can about your relationship with the Thompson family."
"I contacted Senator Thompson when he was leading in the party primaries. I asked him to appear on my show because he's such an outstanding proponent of conservative Christian values."
"How many times have you had Senator Thompson on your 700 club program?"
"About 20 times since that first appearance. He's a favorite among my viewers."
"Did he share your views on homosexuality and transsexuality?"
"Yes, we both consider homosexuality a vile and disgusting act, that goes against the laws of god and the laws of nature. As for transsexuals, I understand there are hermaphrodites, but those are so rare, there are probably only a few hundred in the entire country. Most of them are corrected at birth."
"So what's your theological stand on transsexuals who were not born hermaphrodites?"
"The Bible says they are an abomination and should be put to death."
"So it wouldn't be out of the questions that someone could see your program and feel that it was their duty to attack, punish, even kill a transsexual?"
"I couldn't say that I would condone that, it's not like we get on the 700 club and tell people to go out and kill some faggots, but I suppose that if they read those passages that apply, they could think that was their duty."
"Thank you Reverend Robertson."
The prosecutor stood up "Exactly how many verses are you talking about that apply to transsexuals."
"I believe there are four verses that apply, one condemns cross-dressing, the other three condemn boys who pretend to be women."
"Dr. Robertson, how many verses are there in the standard Bible?"
"Roughly 30,000 verses, not including Maccabees."
"So let me make sure this is clear. There are 4 verses that apply to transsexuals, out of 30,000 verses, and this is the basis for violent attacks on transsexuals that often result in their deaths?"
"But those few verses do state that the penalty is death. There are also all the verses against homosexuality."
"How many verses is that Reverend Robertson?"
"There are 8 verses that apply to that. Only 3 mention the death penalty."
"So, you're suggesting that your followers beat, torture, or murder transsexuals on the basis of 12 verses out of 30,000 verses?"
"I suppose some of my millions of viewers might see it that way, yes. They
consider those verses to be very important."
"Who would consider them that important?"
"Senator Thompson seemed to think it was very important. He felt he could get a lot of extra votes by pounding the anti-faggot message. It seems to have worked, he got himself elected. Seems that a LOT of people think that anti-gay legislation is important enough to vote for."
"Reverend Robertson, in the past year of the 700 club, how many episodes have you dedicated to gay or transsexual issues?"
"I believe we've had about 60 episodes on these issues, it gets lots of viewers and lots of donations."
"Thank you, Reverend Robertson."
"This won't be shown to the public, will it?"
Defense just buried his face between his hands.
The entire jury was sitting with arms folded over their chest, leaning back.
Tina Testifies for the Defense
"Defense recalls Tina Clark."
Tina took her seat on the witness stand. She was reminded that she was still under oath.
"Miss Clark, what was your given name at birth?"
"Objection!"
"Sustained! Counselor, you are on very thin ice here."
Tina smiled "That's fine, I'll answer the question, my birth certificate reads Theodore Clark."
"Miss Clark, what was your gender at birth!"
Tina paused, Defense realized there had been no objection.
"For the first few hours after my birth, my gender was uncertain."
The whole courtroom gasped.
"How is that possible?"
Tina smiled "When I was born, I had about a third of a vagina and a third of a penis. These days, they probably would have turned me into a girl, but Dad decided to make me a boy."
"So your birth certificate reads male?"
"Yep, he goofed"
The courtroom started to laugh.
"So you believe you are a girl trapped in a boy's body"
"More like a girl who was born with an oversized clit."
Defense looked to the Judge "Move to strike!"
The judge shook her head; she was trying not to laugh "You opened this door counselor."
"So Tina, you are under the delusion that you are a female, even though you have a male body?"
"Tina smiled - I have a 38-28-38 figure, a half inch penis that gets about 2 inches long when I'm aroused, I have no big bulky muscles, I've never been in a fight, and I've only hit one person with a lucky punch. What on EARTH makes you think there is anything manly about ANY of that!"
The Jury laughed aloud.
"How could you possibly be anything other than male?"
Tina smiled "I can explain it, is that OK your honor?"
The Judge nodded "Go ahead dear, this could be interesting."
"When mom was pregnant, she didn't want to lose me. She'd already had a miscarriage and there was a history of miscarriages in my family. To make sure that she didn't lose me, her doctor gave her DES, which includes a massive dose of estrogen. The estrogen plus my dad's feminine nature combined to pretty much eliminate or ignore the testosterone my body was producing. My brain is more like a girl's, so is my body. My hands are more feminine, my hips are wider, and my butt is larger."
"So do you feel like God made a mistake?"
Tina grinned "Absolutely not! I'm a miracle of God!"
Defense sensed a trap but couldn't resist "Rather arrogant of you, isn't it?"
Tina shook her head slowly as she smiled "Both of my grandparents survived the 1918 flu epidemic when so many others died, mom survived Scarlet Fever and then got Polio. She was immobile and in an iron lung when they decided to try the sister Ignatius treatment, similar to the program FDR did in warm springs Georgia. Not only did she survive, she walks on her own, she attracted my dad, and she had me."
Tina took a breath "After I was born, I had severe asthma, but I kept surviving the attacks, I had a case of Shigellosis that almost killed me, and I've survived thousands of brutal attacks that would have killed most people. I guess that would be a miracle too."
The defense attorney rubbed his eyes. He was getting massacred by Tina every time he asked a question.
"You are a cross-dresser, correct?"
"I used to be, when I tried to pretend I was a boy. Now I dress like me."
The jury laughed, she was winning their hearts.
"Are you familiar with Leviticus 18?"
Tina giggled "Oh goody, Bible quiz. Yes, I'm familiar with all the passages that seem to condemn homosexuality and the verses that seem to condemn cross-dressing and boys acting like women. Did you want to talk about them?"
The defense attorney knew he was trapped. From his discovery, he found out that Tina not only knew the Bible, but taught Bible studies. If he said yes, she would tear him apart, if he said no, the prosecution would blow it open and he would only have one chance to redirect.
The defense sighed "Sure, go ahead."
Defense read "Leviticus 18:22 – A man shall not lie with a male as with a woman, it is an abomination."
"Tina smiled "Yes, remember, in the time of the Exodus, all marriages were arranged marriages. The fathers of the bride and groom would bargain for a deal that was mutually beneficial to all, and seal it with the marriage. Now, suppose you didn't have any daughters, but you had a young son who hadn't started puberty yet. You might be tempted to castrate him and pass him off as a mate. Big no-no for a variety of reasons, fraud, castration, pedophilia, and raping an 11-year-old boy could be a problem when he got old enough to take his revenge."
Tina smiled "Leviticus is a summary of all the judgements made by the judges, the Levites, the priests, during and immediately after the Exodus. Unfortunately, there are no details about the case in question. Furthermore, the translation has little cultural or historical context. In a desert filled with vipers and scorpions, bodily fluids of any kind might have been like ringing the dinner bell for these little predators."
"Did you know that the word that was translated to Abomination in this verse is the same word as "unclean" in other verses in Leviticus. The same word that refers to menstrual blood, or eating cheeseburgers or shrimp!"
The courtroom giggled.
Defense read "Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination, they shall surely be put to death"
Tina smiled and nodded. “If a man and woman, or boy and girl, had sex in her father's house, both were to be stoned to death. These days I doubt more than a tenth of those over 16 would survive that one." Tina did a bashful giggle and the whole gallery started laughing.
Tina continued "I guess it seems fair to have the same penalty two boys having sex in their father's house too."
Defense read "Romans 1:26-27 - For women exchanged natural relations with those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another. Men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves, the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them a deposed mind to do what ought not to be done."
Tina grinned "Paul had some sexual hang-ups as you probably knew. He was the first and only celibate apostle. He was particularly concerned about forced prostitution. Tax collectors often took the daughter of a delinquent tax-payer and pimped her out to the Roman soldiers, in addition to collecting taxes, tax collectors were responsible for provisions, food, shelter, and -- entertainment." She raised her eyebrows and the crowd started laughing."
Tina went on "If the delinquent didn't have a daughter, the tax collector would take his son, have him castrated, and pimp him out to soldiers." She held as the gallery and the jury winced at the thought.
Tina continued "A really big problem in Rome, and other major Roman cities, was that prostitution was done in temples. Temple prostitutes were treated much better than camp tramps, but this meant being an active participant in idolatry, which was the real sin, a violati
on of the second commandment. What's next?"
The defense groaned "1 Timothy 1:10 - The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurer, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine."
Tina giggled "Funny how the same southern bigots who want to eliminate us today managed to completely forget this passage when slavery in the United States was being discussed, or before, during, and after the Civil War."
The Jury laughed.
"In this case, it looks like the practice being condemned was something horrible, like men who rape little boys. All the other activities, in the original Greek refer to activities that would permanently damage the victims. This is much worse than gossip, this is false testimony that results in someone's execution. Definitely NOT sex between two consenting participants."
Defense asked "Don't you mean consenting adults?" Then he rolled his eyes - he'd just put his foot into it again."
Tina widened her eyes "Oh NO! In our culture, you're not an adult until your 18. However, in ancient Jewish cultures, arranged marriages were arranged within 1 year of the first period. At most, the parents would arrange a betrothal, then the kids would spend a year learning how to have a relationship, then they would get married and live with the husband's family. So, a girl would be 11 or 12 years old, and married before she turned 14. Unless her family could provide a substantial dowry, there was a good chance that the man would be much older. Monogamy was a novel idea introduced by Augustus Caesar. Typically, a wealthy man, especially a rabbi would have multiple wives and or concubines. Concubines were slaves that could also be sex partners, but they weren't allowed to have children."
The Jury was enthralled.
Tina smiled and put her arms on the stand "Whatcha got next!"
Defense Cringed "Jude 1:7 Just as Sodom and Gomorra and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire."
Tina smiled "Oh yes, Sodom and Gomorra. Really interesting cities, kind of like Las Vegas!" The jury laughed.
"Actually, those two cities were MUCH worse. It seems that everybody gang-raped everybody. When angels came to visit Lot in Sodom, the people wanted to rape the angels. The passage makes no mention of whether the angels were male, female, or eunuchs, though it's most likely that a messenger of God would be a eunuch."
Religious Liberty On Trial Page 24