Today, Western scholars claim that influence flowed from West to East, and Indian scholars say the opposite. This is an ongoing debate, and nobody knows the answer.
Tell us about Agni.
Agni is the second most important god in the Vedas. Indra is associated with water and Agni, with fire, both key elements for a civilization to be established. In modern times, one would say electricity instead of fire. In Vedic times too, fire and water were essential for life so these gods were important. Indra was invoked for rain and Agni was placed in a kund around which yagnas were performed. It is believed to be the mouth of the gods. When you put ghee in the fire and say ‘swaha’, the food reaches the gods. During a yagna, first the yajman (patron of the yagna) is identified. For instance, I, Devdutt, am performing the yagna, and while chanting a mantra for Indra, I offer ghee into the fire, so it’s from Devdutt to Indra. Like a courier service, Agni carries the offering to that god. So Agni is extremely important.
And Vayu?
Vayu is associated with Marut, storms and prana, life or breath. Vayu is air and prana is breath. They are both co-related. In many ways, Vayu is the source of life. With air comes life and to sustain life you need fire and water.
We see Shiva in the Puranas. How is he seen in the Vedas?
The concept of Shiva exists in the Vedas, but not like we know him now. In the Vedas, he is seen with awe, fear. He is a powerful god called Rudra. Indra and the other gods we spoke of are in the spotlight but Rudra is in the shadows. People are afraid of him. He is invoked last in a yagna, after it’s over. Don’t invoke in the beginning, he may cause trouble, so there’s a forbidding energy. This is not the Bholenath, Shankara kind of image that is found in the Puranas.
What about Vishnu?
Vishnu is more popular. He is associated with the sun, and is one of the Adityas, the sons of Aditi. Here he has characteristics that we can identify with. For instance, as Vamana he took three steps, so he is clearly associated with three steps. You’ll find a description of the Varaha avatar as Emusha, and the Kurma avatar as Akupar. There are these glimpses or vignettes which find fuller form in the Puranas. But he is there, in small descriptions—like a trailer version!
What about Brahma?
Brahma is an important god. In the Vedas, he finds mention as Prajapati, Vastospati, Brahmanaspati, but he is not described as an old man sitting on a lotus flower as he is in the Puranas. His physical form, appearance are not clear in the Vedas. One theory is that Brahma was one of the most important gods of Vedic times but as we moved to the Puranic times, he was abandoned, because yagna was replaced by murti puja or idol worship. Bhakti became more important than ritual. So Shiva and Vishnu gained in importance. And Brahma, along with yagna, started disappearing.
Are the asuras described in the Vedas?
In the Vedas, asuras are not considered negative. In fact, asura is a title for greatness. So they’ll say to Indra, to Varun, ‘Aap asura ho.’ The word which came to mean ‘enemy’ in Puranic times was actually a title of greatness in the Vedas. In Persian or Zoroastrian mythology too there are devas and asuras. There, devas are negative, and asuras are positive. In our Puranas, devas are positive and asuras are negative. In the Vedas, both are positive. In Parsi religion, god is Ahura Mazda. The word Ahura comes from asura.
Are Vedic gods worshipped even today or has the practice stopped altogether?
During a havan or yagna puja, Vedic gods are invoked, like Surya. In a navagraha temple, the names of the grahas come from the Vedas. Astrology is Vedic. For Surya puja, sukta (poems) are found in both Vedas and Puranas; he’s one god who is consistent between the two epochs. Indra may have diminished in significance, but not Surya, although they were competitive gods in Vedic times. In the Ramayana and Mahabharata too you will see them competing. Surya is worshipped even today, in the morning in yoga (surya namaskar), offered water, etc. Surya is a Vedic god who is still alive.
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Vrata
On any given day of the week, people seem to be observing a vrata. Do the Vedas mention vrata?
The Vedas do mention vrata but not in the sense that it’s practised today. There, a vrata is simply an observance before a yagna—like bathing, fasting before a puja, and so on. These observances are called vrata, and the word comes from there.
Why is a vrata observed?
It’s associated with karma. Our 3000-year-old philosophy believes that there is a cause for whatever happens in life. There is a seed for every fruit. But you have no control over the fruit whose seed your action has sown. As Krishna says, don’t worry about the fruit. We also know that we can work hard but there’s no guarantee that it’ll produce results. Life is uncertain. When things are not going right, what can you do? You’ll be told to work hard, be motivated, have faith, go to a guru or a temple, but that doesn’t seem enough. You have to do something. That’s where vrata comes in. You undertake a series of activities by which you try to communicate what you want in life. It’s almost as if you’re communicating with the cosmos, sending a message that this is your wish. By observing a vrata, you express your wish.
How is a vrata observed?
There are different kinds of vrata. One is a jagaran, in which you keep awake all night. It’s a shift from your day-to-day practice. There is maun vrata, in which you abstain from talking. The most popular is fasting, in which you decide to not eat, say, from this sunset to the next. Some people take it a step further and observe a nirjala upvas, that is, they do not even drink water. Then there are those vratas in which you eat only a specific kind of food, like chana or sweet food, or those in which you do not eat certain foods, like sour food. Other vratas can be for going to a temple on foot, or going barefoot, on the knees, or by rolling the body, and so on.
Some of these can be quite rigorous, like keeping silent for ten days, not drinking water for twenty. Although men, women, young and old, all observe vratas, these seem to be more popular with women. Perhaps women did more of this because after marriage they would move from their father’s home to a new home to live with an unfamiliar man. It would make them feel lonely, helpless and powerless. They would console themselves by observing a vrata—it would make them think they were conversing with god and the cosmos, that they had a connection with the world. So from the psychological point of view, it was a very important ritual.
When is a vrata observed?
There are no fixed days. Some are observed annually during a festival or on a tithi (appointed time) like Ekadashi or Sashti or Dussehra when one massages with a particular oil. Others over longer periods like the Vasant Navratri when one eats only vegetarian food. Some can be random, as when on a certain day someone simply decides to observe a vrata.
Are there any stories associated with vratas?
Yes, some vratas are associated with stories. India’s most popular vrata is the Vat-Savitri vrata. This is the story of Savitri which was told to Draupadi and the Pandavas in the Mahabharata.
Savitri is told that her bridegroom will die within a year of their marriage, but as she is in love, she goes ahead and marries Satyavan anyway, against her father’s advice. One year later, when Yama comes for Satyavan, Savitri has a long dialogue with him and manages to get her husband back. What this story tries to establish is that the husband’s life is in his wife’s hands. He can attain longevity by his wife’s actions.
Women keep this vrata once a year for the good health of their husbands. As part of the vrata, you have to listen to or tell the story and walk around a banyan tree (vat-vriksha), tying a thread. Banyan trees all over India have threads tied around their trunk. So, there’s a story, a ritual, and an observance. The observance is that women consume only fruit or milk, not cereal or cooked food, etc. This is a popular vrata in Maharashtra, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh and West Bengal.
Is there a story about the famous Karva Chauth vrata?
Karva means pot and Chauth is the fourth day of the lunar cycle. Although it is now observed throug
hout the country, this vrata is especially popular in north India—Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Punjab. The associated story is of a princess. On her first Karva Chauth, she has a meal before sunrise, fasts all day, then exchanges her karva with seven other married women. The pot contains symbols of marriage (suhaag). She has to wait until moonrise to eat again, but she feels weak and unsure about continuing the fast. To help her, her brother lights a fire far away on a high mountain. Believing she is looking at the moon, she holds up her dupatta and looks through it and completes her fast. Then she breaks her fast and has dinner. Because of this, her husband’s body is covered with pins. She is surprised, but Parvati appears before her and explains to her that it was because she did not observe the vrata properly. The next year she does the vrata properly and her husband is cured. There are variations to this story, but, essentially, all of them convey that when a wife observes the vrata properly, her husband remains fine, otherwise she loses the love of her husband or he falls sick, and so on. The vrata is linked to the life of the husband.
Is there a connection of vrata with the Tantric parampara?
Yes and no. In Tantra, there are various schools of thought, and there is not enough information about it. Mantra is related to mann, the mind; when you chant, you are handling the mann. Tantra is associated with tann, the body. Altering your eating or sleeping habits is what you can do with the body; hence the relation of vrata with Tantra.
Tantra is also associated with loka parampara (folk traditions). Vrata stories are not very sophisticated. They deal with day-to-day lives and are rather simplistic. If you pray to this devi, you’ll get good fortune; if you don’t, you’ll suffer misfortune. Odisha has a famous vrata known as Khumurkudi vrata. It’s connected to the story of a girl called Topoi who comes across Mangaladevi while grazing her goats. One day, when her brother’s wife loses a goat in the forest, Topoi offers broken rice and prays to the goddess; she finds the goat. Her mean sisters-in-law reduce Topoi’s share of broken rice when they find out. Topoi goes hungry and offers her entire share of rice to the goddess. Soon after, her sisters-in-law get injured in a bullock cart accident. Topoi prays to Mangaladevi for their recovery, and the sisters-in-law eventually see sense.
This is one version of the story. Another one has the brothers finding out about the mistreatment. They ask their sister to dress up as Mangaladevi and make their wives speak the truth in front of her. They tell Topoi to cut off their noses if the sisters-in-law lie. Basically, all these are folk tales. The crux is that if you pray to Mangaladevi, all will be well, your problems will be solved; if you don’t, your life will have problems.
Is a vrata observed for Satyanarayana puja?
In this case, the words vrata and puja are often used interchangeably, while generally a vrata may or may not include a puja. Satyanarayana is associated with Vishnu, and if you do puja, chant his name, burn a lamp, have prasad, sing his praises and bhajan, Satyanarayana will bring you prosperity and happiness. Vrata stories are never about the characteristics or qualities of gods and goddesses but about devotees. There’ll be a king, a Brahmin, a woodcutter, a merchant, a man, a woman, upper caste, lower caste, and so on. In vrata stories, the gramadevata (village deity) treats everyone equally, without caste discrimination. There is also no high philosophy here; just a simple ritual of prayer (dhyan), lighting lamps, having prasad, thinking about their stories, of their bhaktas (devotees), etc. Telling their stories (vrata katha) to others is also part of the vrata/puja.
Can you tell us the story of the Santoshi Ma vrata?
Santoshi Ma is the ishta-devi (primary deity) or kuldevi (clan or local deity) of some people in Gujarat and Rajasthan. After a Hindi film was made on her in 1975, this story reached every household in the country. This was the first time that a vrata story was shown on celluloid. The vrata is very simple. Lord Ganesha has two sons—Shubh (auspiciousness) and Laabh (profit)—and one daughter, Santoshi (satisfaction). It’s like an emotion that has been given the form of a devi, portrayed wearing a red sari, with a sword in one hand, and granting blessings with another.
The vrata for her is observed on Fridays, when no sour food is consumed, and only chana and gur should be eaten. This is the unsophisticated food of simple people. The devotee should light a lamp and listen to the devi’s story, and feed seven children. Multiples of eight—8, 16, 32, 64—are considered sacred numbers, so the vrata is observed for sixteen Fridays. The solah shringara, the sixteen forms of adornment, that women follow are also associated with the goddess.
Santoshi Ma reminds Odia people of Mangaladevi (mangal means auspicious). So a kuldevi became a devi for the entire country. The story is similar to Topoi’s story where she is tortured by her sisters-in-law, while her husband is away on business. She has nothing on hand, the only thing she can do is pray and observe a vrata; and this solves her problem. Rather than feel miserable all day, the vrata offers a simple solution, gives you a sense of having done something, having communicated with the cosmos—it calms you down.
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Storytellers of the Ramayana and the Mahabharata
In all of the Brahmand, who narrated the first story? And to whom?
The first story was told by Shiva to Shakti. It’s said that Shiva is all-knowing. However, he was keeping all his knowledge within, staying alone, not talking to anyone, choosing instead to remain in deep meditation with his eyes closed. The gods decided that this could not continue, and the knowledge should be passed on to human beings. So they prayed to the Devi and asked her to marry Shiva and make him share all his knowledge. After their wedding, their conversations became the source of all knowledge. It’s known as Shiva–Shakti samvaad, and is the origin of the Vedas and Tantra.
It is said that when Shiva was talking, imparting knowledge to Shakti, all the animals and birds also listened in. They then went and conveyed this knowledge to the rishis. That’s why this gyan is called shruti (to hear). It is also believed that bhoot-preta (ghosts and wandering souls) spread certain stories, since Shiva is closely linked with these beings.
When all the stories were written, there were so many that they were titled Katha Sarit Sagara (the ocean of stories). And it all started with Shiva.
Who narrated the Ramayana for the first time?
In the Baalkand (childhood episode) of Valmiki’s Ramayana, Rama’s sons Luv and Kush narrate it to him themselves. While hearing the story of this great king, Rama asks, ‘Whose story are you narrating?’ The children say, ‘It’s your story.’ He says the epic poem is so grand, the king is so great that he can’t recognize himself in it—‘I am not that good,’ he says. The implication is that the Rama in their poetry is probably better than the real one. It’s a beautiful beginning of the Ramayana.
Is Valmiki’s Ramayana considered to be the first Ramayana?
Yes, it is, but whether he put down an existing story in poetry form or created the story or whether he is just one of the many storytellers is not clear. In the Adbhut Ramayana or Aadhyatma Ramayana, it is said that the Ramayana was first told by Shiva to Shakti, which was heard by a crow called Kakbhusandi. Kakbhusandi went and told it to Narada who told it to Valmiki who then composed it as an epic poem called the Ramayana. Valmiki then narrated it to Luv and Kush who narrated it to Rama. Seen like this, whom can we consider the origin of the story—Shiva, Kakbhusandi, Narada or Valmiki?
Why did he convert it into poetry?
In ancient times, there existed the oral tradition. Valmiki may be called a ‘writer’ but he is actually a ‘composer’. For ordinary people, poetry was simpler, easier to understand and remember since there’s a tune, a rhythm to it. Anustup Chhand is one of the Vedic metres, a verse format, like ‘Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare’. So the mahakavyas (epic poems)—the Ramayana and the Mahabharata—were composed in poetry form to make them easy to remember.
There’s an interesting story about Valmiki. After hearing the story of Rama, he was pondering over it in the forest, when a pair of birds (nar
a and mada, male and female) flew towards him. One of them, the male, was killed by a hunter. His mate started to weep and kept circling the dead bird in grief over their separation (viraha). Valmiki felt so bad that he cursed the hunter, but his words came out in rhyme. This was the first time his language found rhythm. It is said that shoka (sorrow, pain) gave rise to shloka (poetry). Inspired by this, Valmiki decided to compose the Ramayana in poetic form since it is the story of the separation of Rama and Sita, and it has various emotional elements like karuna (compassion), vyatha (agony), viraha. So he imbued it with rhythm, rhyme, different figures of speech, melody.
Did Hanuman also write the Ramayana?
Valmiki composed the Ramayana in the oral tradition. But in loka kathas it’s said that Hanuman wrote the Ramayana. In calendar art, he is shown writing Rama’s name repeatedly on the stones used to make the bridge to Lanka. We don’t realize the significance of this, but up to the Mauryan period, 2300 years ago, nobody wrote in India. We still followed the oral tradition. The first script—Brahmi—came into being in the Maurya period. After this probably the likhit parampara, the written tradition, began.
Devlok With Devdutt Pattanaik Page 10