GM: If we neglect all these objective limits, would you personally prefer to have a complete screenplay, or would you start shooting without a screenplay?
WKW: Both are fine because the outcome is the same. Even if we have a complete screenplay, very often it does not work out because of the actors’ work schedule or the lack of spark between the actors. Regardless of having a complete screenplay or not, you keep on making changes during the shooting. But of course, when making the changes, you need to know clearly what you want to happen, and you need to control the story development.
GM: So, was the use of ultra-wide angle lens an idea that you had on the set? Was it your idea or Christopher Doyle’s?
WKW: The first one was my idea because I got to decide what kinds of lenses and angles are used during the shooting. But this time I gave Christopher Doyle a lot of trouble because using wide angle lens to shoot in a short distance left the camera’s shadow on the characters’ faces. This also gave me many troubles. Therefore we had many NGs.1
GM: How did you create the five characters in Fallen Angels?
WKW: First, the hit man played by Leon Lai originally came from the third story of Chungking Express. At that time because of the length, we did not make that story. That killer character was created long ago. Last time Takeshi Kaneshiro played a cop; this time we wanted to make a change. He speaks Mandarin Chinese, so I thought I’d make him a mute who likes to trespass on others’ shops to do business at night. At the end he encounters Charlie Young, and they develop a relationship. For Karen Mok’s character, she is someone picked up by Leon Lai one day. Leon hopes to spend a night with her, but in fact he had courted her a long time ago.
GM: In fact, last time in Chungking Express, we have seen the characters bumping into each other in the film, but they did not recognize each other. Is there something similar in Fallen Angels?
WKW: This time there will be more chances for unacquainted characters to meet. After they meet, there will be dialogues. Takeshi Kaneshiro and Michele Reis will have more chances to meet because they live in the same building.
GM: This arrangement reminds me of Kieslowski’s films.
WKW: In fact many people make films like this; there is no relation between his films and mine.
GM: I remember one time when I was visiting the set, Michele Reis was in a scene spending her time in the laundry room. She was doing nothing important: picking up the telephone, picking up a towel, sitting around idly, etc. You spend quite a lot of time shooting scenes of mundane events. Do you worry you’ll bore the audience?
WKW: I don’t think so. Last time Faye Wong had a scene like this in Chungking Express. The audience accepted it, and it is not non-commercialized. These scenes may appear to be irrelevant to the plot but are in fact very important, especially when you are interested in someone—his/her behavior becomes very important. Because of one’s bias towards others, sometimes words can deceive, but behavior can’t.
GM: But are you worried there aren’t enough commercial elements?
WKW: Fallen Angels is, in fact, quite commercialized, same for Chungking Express. I think the average person has a rather narrow definition of what commercialized films are. But one thing is clear, film is one kind of commercial activity. Therefore there should be different packaging and targeting, [the film industry] should be more like a supermarket that can accept different business models, merchandise; [one] should not comment that this shop has a problematic way of doing business, that shop has too much low-end merchandise … the market needs different things and ways of operation. If you look around at today’s films, there are many non-commercialized films that are visually stunning, but they do not make money.
GM: Just now when we mentioned the scene where Michele Reis does mundane things, I could also associate that scene with the style of 1950s Italian filmmakers such as De Sica. They liked to show the daily lives in real time. Were you influenced by their films? William Chang once said he was influenced by 1960s French New Wave films.
WKW: There must be some influence because that was the time when we first saw films. We were naturally influenced by all those [film] movements. In addition, we did not study films, we grew up in movie theaters. In those days, we would see Cantonese films, Japanese films, Hollywood films—they became our entire film education. But that does not mean we would make films because of their influences, and we would not be influenced by a particular type of film. On the other hand, I have to consider if film forces you to think in a certain way or if it gives you some thinking space? If one does not like a careful calculation in every drama, if one does not like manipulating the audience’s reaction, then why not give the audience more space?
GM: Recently there is a book on Hong Kong popular culture2 that uses your characters to illustrate the sentiments of city dwellers at the fin de siècle. Do you agree with this viewpoint?
WKW: I think this author has not been paying attention [to my films] because every film of mine is very optimistic, and the characters survive and live on at the end. This is unrelated to fin de siècle. Now many people like abusing terms (with an annoyed tone): what fin de siècle, what decadence culture, what postmodernism, and so on. I think these things (relations between characters) could happen in any time period; they have no relation to the end of the century. In fact every day is the end of the century.
May be [the book author] thinks the characters have to bear the challenge of love, but in fact they all prevail. For example, all six characters in Days of Being Wild live on, the same to those in Ashes of Time. But they have to wait till they are in their thirties or forties to overcome [the challenges].
GM: Your films are mostly about love relations of city dwellers.
WKW: In fact, to young people in their twenties, thirties. Life is more than that; there are many things outside love relationships. That’s why there are many other elements in Fallen Angels. I am very interested in family relations, but the audience wants those in wuxia films, cop-and-thief films. That’s why I use family relations as much as space allows.
GM: Do you please the audience by adding action scenes in every film?
WKW: In fact many people ask me why I used cops in Chungking Express. My first response is because I like their uniforms; the second is because Hong Kong films have to have action scenes. In today’s society, gangsters and cops usually have fights. Then I chose a hit man for Fallen Angels. But the question is not whether there are action or non-action scenes because action is only a way to express emotions, a kind of behavior and activity.
GM: In your films, the acting is very shallow. Even if the characters break up or change lovers, they do not change much. This is the case for Tony Leung Chiu-wai and Takeshi Kaneshiro [in Chungking Express]. In fact, does this way of acting respond to city dwellers’ ambiguous attitudes toward love relations? Or are there other purposes?
WKW: This is only my preference. Perhaps it is because I am like that. I feel this is an appropriate way to express emotions.
GM: Will you refuse dramatic acting?
WKW: No, but the dramatic acting has to be good. Sometimes it has to depend on the story. I would accept a character who grows up in a rural village to be highly dramatic.
GM: From your perspective, what is exceptional acting? For the concept of acting, is it about being another character and playing that character well, or is it about not thinking about acting but playing oneself?
WKW: Basically, if one could see the acting, it is already not good. Most times good acting cannot be described. Although many say playing oneself is the best kind of acting, one never knows the real self. The talk of playing oneself is actually a kind of acting. I think the most important thing about acting is it has to be convincing; it has to get the audience absorbed [in the film].
GM: Although the process of making films is difficult and there are many difficulties to overcome, some directors enjoy this process because during the filming process they could look back and be introspective. Also, t
he product stimulates thoughts for the audience. What do you think about filmmaking?
WKW: There are two parts: a director may ask oneself during the filmmaking process, “Why is making films so difficult? Is it possible not to make films?” Making films is like a life sentence. Looking back, though, one would enjoy that time because what is worth remembering is a thing of the past. Film is the same. The duration of enjoyment may be three minutes, but that of pain may be two years.
GM: Your films have always been the spotlight for film critics, and there are many criticisms of your films. Are there any occasions of misreadings?
WKW: I think this is not important because once you make a film there will be someone writing about it. In addition, everyone has his or her own view, so I absolutely won’t interfere in others’ thoughts. I could not control [how others think] anyway. However, many people’s views are not about a film but about how their views of this film are different from others, so they are debating their different viewpoints and stances, not about the film. A film should give others a space to think.
Nevertheless, the only thing that irritates me is some make mistakes on descriptive information, such as the shooting locations, the shooting duration. If I saw [the wrong information], I would not be too happy. I won’t speculate on their motivations. But as media workers, they should first carefully do fact-checking before writing about the details. That should be their work ethic.
GM: I think your dialogues are very special, in particular the interior monologues of the characters. Besides their expressing cosmopolitan sentiments, they also have poetically irrational logic. The dialogues provide much space for the audience to interpret.
WKW: During the writing process, I only thought this character should talk like this, merely from the point of view of the characters.
GM: You studied graphic design; why would you attempt to be a director? Were you influenced by films that you had watched so you wanted to be a director?
WKW: At the beginning, I only wanted to find a job after graduation. At that time TVB3 had training for directors, and they paid a stipend. I thought, why not? I could study and make money at the same time. Then someone asked me to direct, so I began this kind of lifestyle. At that time I liked films very much, but not enough to want to be a director. I accepted the job [to direct] when others gave me one.
GM: After studying graphic design, do you feel this helps you to be a director, with things like screen composition?
WKW: Completely unrelated. Those who study design are not particularly creative. It was just by chance that I studied design. At the beginning I did not want to do that much homework. I wanted to have more time to think. I found out it was not like that afterwards.
GM: Do you like a particular film genre?
WKW: Everything that is good, … the kind that is touching for the audience.
GM: So when you are making films, do you want them to be touching for the audience or for yourself?
WKW: If the film is touching, the first one to be touched has to be the director him/herself. Sometimes it does not have to be a weepie. You can be touched by seeing a worker mending the sidewalk. [It is touching] as long as one is authentic, when one has good intentions. And my standard of making films is that I don’t allow myself to have a chance to regret later.
GM: When you were making films, did you think of making the audience feel touched?
WKW: Yes, films should be communicative at the end, but I hope to present some ways [to communicate], to illustrate this is also an acceptable way to communicate. I could accept many things at the beginning, but I should not stop trying because others do not accept it. It is like you could only walk along Nathan Road in Tsim Sha Tsui.4
GM: Do you worry about repeating yourself when you were making attempts in the process?
WKW: Of course, I can’t repeat [myself]. If today I remade As Tears Go By, I think the audience might not like it. Actually when the director communicates with the audience, it is a kind of attempt. Because after every attempt, I would know the distance between myself and the audience. If there is a problem I would try again. If there is still a problem I would try again until the gap between the audience and me is reduced. Of course, all these should be done within the premise of not losing my way of doing things.
GM: Your films are always associated with “good film reviews, bad box office.” What is your thought on this?
WKW: Looking for new revenue and reducing costs—this has always been my way. If you are the kind of director who wants to make your own films, you have to find a space to survive. In particular in the past few years, I gradually have felt I need to tell others that I can only make this kind of film, not other kinds. If you like this kind, I welcome your business; if not, then it does not bother me. At the end I think if I constantly have to accommodate the overseas market, then I could not please both parties. I could not please everyone; more [importantly], I could not do what I want to do.
GM: You have made five films. Do you see any improvements?
WKW: I don’t think of it as a question of improvements but how people change because of time. The so-called improvement is nothing but a change.
GM: How about other Hong Kong directors?
WKW: Each master has his/her own way; everyone is producing merchandise in this supermarket. I only hope to make better products, to make the audience buy tickets.
GM: But as a whole, is it like what people outside the industry say: Hong Kong directors are regressing?
WKW: Not regressing, but in recent years there are only a few directors who are prominent, such as Wong Jing,5 who makes many films in a year. He has given a livelihood to many people. There aren’t too many emerging filmmakers because Hong Kong does not nurture talent; people are not farsighted enough. If there is any crisis, people would only cut the resources and time to train new talent. Taiwan also has to face the same problem.
In addition there is no big studio that will come out to support other independents. They also have to face the pressure of the overseas market, but the market asks for those films that are commercialized. As a result, the products are all the same. If there is a big studio, it may have enough capital to invest in different film genres.
GM: Now Hollywood tends to make big productions with special effects. Do you worry they will monopolize the market?
WKW: Not necessarily. At the same time [Hollywood] could accommodate many genres, like the audience who is used to Judge Dredd could also like Forrest Gump. In this supermarket there have to be different products. Advanced technology naturally will be integrated into films; this is the trend. Therefore, the PRC government and the Taiwanese government ought to send students to the US to learn digital arts.
But would the market demand of all these [commercial] films kill others? I don’t think so because the original purposes are not the same. Because of capital shortage, there would be plans to make films that do not require big budgets. That’s why non-mainstream films have their space to survive, in particular now that words are replaced by images. With the advancements in technology, nonmainstream films will have their own markets.
GM: You have once said your films are old wine in new bottles, like repackaging old canned food, but I personally think Wong Jing’s films also recycle others’, or perhaps his own idea. Both are essentially the same thing, but the reactions outside the industry are very extreme: one side is full of praises, another side is full of insults, what do you think?
WKW: I think everyone has different purpose. I have not seen Wong Jing’s films for a long time, so I found it hard to critique them. But I personally think while many describe his films as low-taste, cheap, this is very superficial. I had seen his films before. Wong Jing is an excellent storyteller; the audience only needs to spend three minutes to know how the story develops. This is not an easy thing to do. Many directors spend half a day, and the audience still doesn’t know what the story is. That’s why Wong Jing has the talent to succeed.
&nbs
p; GM: What is the meaning of films for the audience?
WKW: Personally, I hope to do what I had wanted to do when I was small, which is to bring sorrow, joy, and a sense of loss to the audience. Film is only a channel: whether it is one between the director and the audience or one between the director and the actors or one between the audience members, at the end it is communication between humans.
NOTES
1. NG is commonly used in Hong Kong television and film industries. It means “no good” and therefore a retake is needed.
2. It may refer to the Chinese book written by Natalia Chan. See Natalia Chan, Decadent City: Hong Kong Popular Culture (Hong Kong: Oxford University Press, 1995).
3. TVB stands for Television Broadcasts Limited. It is the dominant TV station of the two providing free-to-air channels in the 1980s. Production is usually done in-house.
4. Tsim Sha Tsui is a shopping/commercial area in the Kowloon Peninsula. Nathan Road is the main street. Chungking Mansion—a shooting location in Chungking Express—is located on Nathan Road.
5. Wong Jing is a prolific film director and producer who made a lot of comedies that are seen as “low taste” by film critics but they have excellent box offices.
Open Communication: Wong Kar-wai
Yik Ming /1997
From City Entertainment (Hong Kong). No. 485 (pp. 15–18). Interview conducted in Cantonese in 1997. Reprinted by permission of the publisher. Translated by Silver Wai-ming Lee from Chinese.
Wong Kar-wai’s Motorola commercial, like his filmmaking process, attracted a lot of media attention. The news coverage is always about the budget, the image design, and the prolonged production schedule. The commercial received media attention before it was even finished; however, no one talks about what the final product—the advertisement—is like. Every time I watch a new film by Wong, I want to know what tricks he is going to play. This is especially the case when recent mobile phone commercials have imaginative storylines, extravagant action, wonderful special effects, and fascinating visuals. I wonder what new tricks Wong can use to make the commercial unique.
Wong Kar-wai Page 12