The Middle Length Discourses of the Buddha
Page 65
8. “How then, does Master Gotama hold the view: ‘The soul is one thing and the body another: only this is true, anything else is wrong’?”
“Vaccha, I do not hold the view: ‘The soul is one thing and the body another: only this is true, anything else is wrong.’”
9. “How is it, Master Gotama, does Master Gotama hold the view: ‘After death a Tathāgata exists: only this is true, anything else is wrong’?”719
“Vaccha, I do not hold the view: ‘After death a Tathāgata exists: only this is true, anything else is wrong.’”
10. “How then, does Master Gotama hold the view: ‘After death a Tathāgata does not exist: only this is true, anything else is wrong’?”
“Vaccha, I do not hold the view: ‘After death a Tathāgata does not exist: only this is true, anything else is wrong.’”
11. “How is it, Master Gotama, does Master Gotama hold the view: ‘After death a Tathāgata both exists and does not exist: only this is true, anything else is wrong.’?” [485]
“Vaccha, I do not hold the view: ‘After death a Tathāgata both exists and does not exist: only this is true, anything else is wrong.’”
12. “How then, does Master Gotama hold the view: ‘After death a Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist: only this is true, anything else is wrong’?”
“Vaccha, I do not hold the view: ‘After death a Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist: only this is true, anything else is wrong.’”
13. “How is it then, Master Gotama? When Master Gotama is asked each of these ten questions, he replies: ‘I do not hold that view.’ What danger does Master Gotama see that he does not take up any of these speculative views?”
14. “Vaccha, the speculative view that the world is eternal is a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a vacillation of views, a fetter of views. It is beset by suffering, by vexation, by despair, and by fever, and it does not lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to peace, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbāna.
“The speculative view that the world is not eternal…that the world is finite…that the world is infinite…that the soul and the body are the same…that the soul is one thing and the body another…that after death a Tathāgata exists [486]…that after death a Tathāgata does not exist…that after death a Tathāgata both exists and does not exist…that after death a Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist is a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a vacillation of views, a fetter of views. It is beset by suffering, by vexation, by despair, and by fever, and it does not lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to peace, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbāna. Seeing this danger, I do not take up any of these speculative views.”
15. “Then does Master Gotama hold any speculative view at all?”
“Vaccha, ‘speculative view’ is something that the Tathāgata has put away. For the Tathāgata, Vaccha, has seen720 this: ‘Such is material form, such its origin, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origin, such its disappearance; such is perception, such its origin, such its disappearance; such are formations, such their origin, such their disappearance; such is consciousness, such its origin, such its disappearance.’ Therefore, I say, with the destruction, fading away, cessation, giving up, and relinquishing of all conceivings, all excogitations, all I-making, mine-making, and the underlying tendency to conceit, the Tathāgata is liberated through not clinging.”
16. “When a bhikkhu’s mind is liberated thus, Master Gotama, where does he reappear [after death]?”
“The term ‘reappears’ does not apply, Vaccha.”721
“Then he does not reappear, Master Gotama?”
“The term ‘does not reappear’ does not apply, Vaccha.”
“Then he both reappears and does not reappear, Master Gotama?”
“The term ‘both reappears and does not reappear’ does not apply, Vaccha.”
“Then he neither reappears nor does not reappear, Master Gotama?”
“The term ‘neither reappears nor does not reappear’ does not apply, Vaccha.”
17. “When Master Gotama is asked these four questions, he replies: ‘The term “reappears” does not apply, Vaccha; the term “does not reappear” does not apply, Vaccha; the term “both reappears and does not reappear” does not apply, Vaccha; the term “neither reappears nor [487] does not reappear” does not apply, Vaccha.’ Here I have fallen into bewilderment, Master Gotama, here I have fallen into confusion, and the measure of confidence I had gained through previous conversation with Master Gotama has now disappeared.”
18. “It is enough to cause you bewilderment, Vaccha, enough to cause you confusion. For this Dhamma, Vaccha, is profound, hard to see and hard to understand, peaceful and sublime, unattainable by mere reasoning, subtle, to be experienced by the wise. It is hard for you to understand it when you hold another view, accept another teaching, approve of another teaching, pursue a different training, and follow a different teacher. So I shall question you about this in return, Vaccha. Answer as you choose.
19. “What do you think, Vaccha? Suppose a fire were burning before you. Would you know: ‘This fire is burning before me’?”
“I would, Master Gotama.”
“If someone were to ask you, Vaccha: ‘What does this fire burning before you burn in dependence on?’—being asked thus, what would you answer?”
“Being asked thus, Master Gotama, I would answer: ‘This fire burns in dependence on fuel of grass and sticks.’”
“If that fire before you were to be extinguished, would you know: ‘This fire before me has been extinguished’?”
“I would, Master Gotama.”
“If someone were to ask you, Vaccha: ‘When that fire before you was extinguished, to which direction did it go: to the east, the west, the north, or the south?’—being asked thus, what would you answer?”
“That does not apply, Master Gotama. The fire burned in dependence on its fuel of grass and sticks. When that is used up, if it does not get any more fuel, being without fuel, it is reckoned as extinguished.”
20. “So too, Vaccha, the Tathāgata has abandoned that material form by which one describing the Tathāgata might describe him;722 he has cut it off at the root, made it like a palm stump, done away with it so that it is no longer subject to future arising. The Tathāgata is liberated from reckoning in terms of material form, Vaccha, he is profound, immeasurable, hard to fathom like the ocean. ‘He reappears’ does not apply; ‘he does not reappear’ does not apply; [488] ‘he both reappears and does not reappear’ does not apply; ‘he neither reappears nor does not reappear’ does not apply.723 The Tathāgata has abandoned that feeling by which one describing the Tathāgata might describe him…has abandoned that perception by which one describing the Tathāgata might describe him…has abandoned those formations by which one describing the Tathāgata might describe him…has abandoned that consciousness by which one describing the Tathāgata might describe him; he has cut it off at the root, made it like a palm stump, done away with it so that it is no longer subject to future arising. The Tathāgata is liberated from reckoning in terms of consciousness, Vaccha; he is profound, immeasurable, hard to fathom like the ocean. ‘He reappears’ does not apply; ‘he does not reappear’ does not apply; ‘he both reappears and does not reappear’ does not apply; ‘he neither reappears nor does not reappear’ does not apply.”
21. When this was said, the wanderer Vacchagotta said to the Blessed One: “Master Gotama, suppose there were a great sāla tree not far from a village or town, and impermanence wore away its branches and foliage, its bark and sapwood, so that on a later occasion, being divested of branches and foliage, divested of bark and sapwood, it became pure, consisting entirely of heartwood; so too, this discourse of Master Gotama’s is divested of branches and foliage, divested of bark and sapwood, and is pure, consisting entirely of heartwood.
22. “
Magnificent, Master Gotama! Magnificent, Master Gotama! Master Gotama has made the Dhamma clear in many ways, as though he were turning upright what had been overthrown, revealing what was hidden, showing the way to one who was lost, or holding up a lamp in the dark [489] for those with eyesight to see forms. I go to Master Gotama for refuge and to the Dhamma and to the Sangha of bhikkhus. From today let Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone to him for refuge for life.”
Mahāvacchagotta Sutta
The Greater Discourse to Vacchagotta
1. THUS HAVE I HEARD. On one occasion the Blessed One was living at Rājagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the Squirrels’ Sanctuary.
2. Then the wanderer Vacchagotta went to the Blessed One and exchanged greetings with him. When this courteous and amiable talk was finished, he sat down at one side and said to the Blessed One:
3. “I have had conversations with Master Gotama for a long time. It would be good if Master Gotama would teach me in brief the wholesome and the unwholesome.”
“I can teach you the wholesome and the unwholesome in brief, Vaccha, and I can teach you the wholesome and the unwholesome at length. Still I will teach you the wholesome and the unwholesome in brief. Listen and attend closely to what I shall say.”
“Yes, sir,” he replied. The Blessed One said this:
4. “Vaccha, greed is unwholesome, non-greed is wholesome; hate is unwholesome, non-hate is wholesome; delusion is unwholesome, non-delusion is wholesome. In this way three things are unwholesome and the other three things are wholesome.
5. “Killing living beings is unwholesome, abstention from killing living beings is wholesome; taking what is not given is unwholesome, abstention from taking what is not given is wholesome; misconduct in sensual pleasures is unwholesome, abstention from misconduct in sensual pleasures is wholesome; false speech is unwholesome, abstention from false speech is wholesome; malicious speech [490] is unwholesome, abstention from malicious speech is wholesome; harsh speech is unwholesome, abstention from harsh speech is wholesome; gossip is unwholesome, abstention from gossip is wholesome; covetousness is unwholesome, uncovetousness is wholesome; ill will is unwholesome, non-ill will is wholesome; wrong view is unwholesome, right view is wholesome. In this way ten thingsis are unwholesome and the other ten things are wholesome.
6. “When a bhikkhu has abandoned craving, cut it off at the root, made it like a palm stump, done away with it so that it is no longer subject to future arising, then that bhikkhu is an arahant with taints destroyed, one who has lived the holy life, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, reached the true goal, destroyed the fetters of being, and is completely liberated through final knowledge.”
7. “Apart from Master Gotama, is there any one bhikkhu, Master Gotama’s disciple, who by realising for himself with direct knowledge here and now enters upon and abides in the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom that are taintless with the destruction of the taints?”724
“There are not only one hundred, Vaccha, or two or three or four or five hundred, but far more bhikkhus, my disciples, who by realising for themselves with direct knowledge here and now enter upon and abide in the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom that are taintless with the destruction of the taints.”
8. “Apart from Master Gotama and the bhikkhus, is there any one bhikkhunī, Master Gotama’s disciple, who by realising for herself with direct knowledge here and now enters upon and abides in the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom that are taintless with the destruction of the taints?”
“There are not only one hundred…or five hundred, but far more bhikkhunīs, my disciples, who by realising for themselves with direct knowledge here and now enter upon and abide in the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom that are taintless with the destruction of the taints.”
9. “Apart from Master Gotama and the bhikkhus and bhikkhunīs, is there any one man lay follower, Master Gotama’s disciple, clothed in white leading a life of celibacy who, with the destruction of the five lower fetters, will reappear spontaneously [in the Pure Abodes] and there attain final Nibbāna without ever returning from that world?”725
“There are not only one hundred…or five hundred, but far more men lay followers, my disciples, clothed in white leading lives of celibacy who, with the destruction of the five lower fetters, [491] will reappear spontaneously [in the Pure Abodes] and there attain final Nibbāna without ever returning from that world.”
10. “Apart from Master Gotama, the bhikkhus and bhikkhunīs, and the men lay followers clothed in white leading lives of celibacy, is there any one man lay follower, Master Gotama’s disciple, clothed in white enjoying sensual pleasures, who carries out his instruction, responds to his advice, has gone beyond doubt, become free from perplexity, gained intrepidity, and become independent of others in the Teacher’s Dispensation?” 726
“There are not only one hundred…or five hundred, but far more men lay followers, my disciples, clothed in white enjoying sensual pleasures, who carry out my instruction, respond to my advice, have gone beyond doubt, become free from perplexity, gained intrepidity, and become independent of others in the Teacher’s Dispensation.”
11. “Apart from Master Gotama, the bhikkhus and bhikkhunīs, and the men lay followers clothed in white, both those leading lives of celibacy and those enjoying sensual pleasures, is there any one woman lay follower, Master Gotama’s disciple, clothed in white leading a life of celibacy who, with the destruction of the five lower fetters, will reappear spontaneously [in the Pure Abodes] and there attain final Nibbāna without ever returning from that world?”
“There are not only one hundred…or five hundred, but far more women lay followers, my disciples, clothed in white leading lives of celibacy who, with the destruction of the five lower fetters, will reappear spontaneously [in the Pure Abodes] and there attain final Nibbāna without ever returning from that world.”
12. “Apart from Master Gotama, the bhikkhus and bhikkhunīs, and the men lay followers clothed in white, both those leading lives of celibacy and those enjoying sensual pleasures, and the women lay followers clothed in white leading lives of celibacy, is there any one woman lay follower, Master Gotama’s disciple, clothed in white enjoying sensual pleasures, who carries out his instruction, responds to his advice, has gone beyond doubt, become free from perplexity, gained intrepidity, and become independent of others in the Teacher’s Dispensation?”
“There are not only one hundred…or five hundred, but far more women lay followers, my disciples, clothed in white enjoying sensual pleasures, who carry out my instruction, respond to my advice, have gone beyond doubt, become free of perplexity, gained intrepidity, and become independent of others in the Teacher’s Dispensation.”
13. “Master Gotama, if only Master Gotama were accomplished in this Dhamma, but no bhikkhus were accomplished, [492] then this holy life would be deficient in that respect; but because Master Gotama and bhikkhus are accomplished in this Dhamma, this holy life is thus complete in that respect. If only Master Gotama and bhikkhus were accomplished in this Dhamma, but no bhikkhunīs were accomplished, then this holy life would be deficient in that respect; but because Master Gotama, bhikkhus, and bhikkhunīs are accomplished in this Dhamma, this holy life is thus complete in that respect. If only Master Gotama, bhikkhus, and bhikkhunīs were accomplished in this Dhamma, but no men lay followers clothed in white leading lives of celibacy were accomplished, then this holy life would be deficient in that respect; but because Master Gotama, bhikkhus and bhikkhunīs, and men lay followers clothed in white leading lives of celibacy are accomplished in this Dhamma, this holy life is thus complete in that respect. If only Master Gotama, bhikkhus and bhikkhunīs, and men lay followers clothed in white leading lives of celibacy were accomplished in this Dhamma, but no men lay followers clothed in white enjoying sensual pleasures were accomplished, then this holy life would be deficient in that respect; but because Master Gotama, bhikkhus and bhikkhuni�
�s, and men lay followers clothed in white, both those leading lives of celibacy and those enjoying sensual pleasures, are accomplished in this Dhamma, this holy life is thus complete in that respect. If only Master Gotama, bhikkhus and bhikkhunīs, and men lay followers clothed in white…were accomplished in this Dhamma, but no women lay followers clothed in white [493] leading lives of celibacy were accomplished, then this holy life would be deficient in that respect; but because Master Gotama, bhikkhus and bhikkhunīs, men lay followers clothed in white…and women lay followers clothed in white leading lives of celibacy are accomplished in this Dhamma, this holy life is thus complete in that respect. If only Master Gotama, bhikkhus and bhikkhunīs, men lay followers clothed in white…and women lay followers clothed in white leading lives of celibacy were accomplished in this Dhamma, but no women lay followers clothed in white enjoying sensual pleasures were accomplished, then this holy life would be deficient in that respect; but because Master Gotama, bhikkhus and bhikkhunīs, men lay followers clothed in white, both those leading lives of celibacy and those enjoying sensual pleasures, and women lay followers clothed in white, both those leading lives of celibacy and those enjoying sensual pleasures, are accomplished in this Dhamma, this holy life is thus complete in that respect.