Q & A
Page 32
this is our nature, where does the truth emerge?
A:
Do you mean, where in terms of television, sir?
Q:
I mean, I was wondering, since the television stations
operate theoretically as a public service and in the public interest,
if you feel there is any obligation for them to more or less clear
themselves with all of the people that have been deceived on
these quiz programs—if they should not offer some public
service time for the purpose of clarifying.
A:
I believe very strongly in public service programming.
But it would probably be presumptuous of me
to say what the networks should do in this case.
Q:
Who did you talk to at NBC about your $50,000 contract?
A:
Mr. Bigler and Mr. Denning, I believe.
Q:
What were the nature of these discussions?
A:
There wasn’t much discussion, really. I was to be what is
called a public programming consultant, but nobody had
any ideas, and I hadn’t any either.
Q:
But they signed the contract?
A:
Yes.
Q:
And agreed to pay you $50,000 for what they
did not know—not knowing what you would do?
A:
They knew—we knew—I would
appear on the TODAY Show.
Q:
Did you conclude, Mr. Saint Claire, that actually what
they were buying was your popularity that had been
created on the quiz show?
A:
That occurred to me, sir.
I was inclined to believe that.
Q:
I’m sorry, Mr. Saint Claire, but
we must pause for a moment here.
A:
Pause, sir?
Q:
Yes, we need to pause here for
a word from our sponsors.
[advertisement: dog food]
Q:
We are back. Now, a point of order. I had thought
that everyone who would consider himself or herself
a photographer was familiar with the rules. While I am
speaking, you are to keep me firmly in frame. Gather
around now. There. That’s more like it. Now,
Mr. Saint Claire, I suppose it would not be any excuse or
consolation or justification for your part in this, but certainly
it seems to me that the people most responsible for this
kind of deception are those who produced the program and
who apparently were much more experienced in the art of
deception than you were.
A:
Well sir, I did my share of deceiving.
I even believed I could deceive myself.
Q:
You imagined so, yes. And what will be the future of the individual imagination, Mr. Saint Claire, in what is usually called
the ‘civilization of the image’?
A:
The montage is the message, and the message
is that the torrent feels good.
Q:
Isn’t TV a kind of trickster?
Aren’t screens of all kinds?
A:
A trickster, sir?
Q:
Yes, insofar as the trickster is always
between his victim and reality.
A:
Well, yes sir, what we have is culture recast as data.
Q:
I’m sorry, we must pause here for another
word from our sponsors.
[advertisement: household cleaning agent]
Q:
We are back. And you were saying, Mr. Saint Claire,
something about culture…
A:
Well, at present, sir, America is a nation where
at the same time cultural freedom is promised and
mass culture is produced.
Q:
Mass culture?
A:
Popular culture, if you will.
Q:
That’s a very benign-seeming moniker.
A:
In the first place, not everyone believes a cure is needed,
and in the second, there probably isn’t any.
Q:
If I’m following you, Mr. Saint Claire, you mean to say that
entertainment has shed its pejorative stench. In other words,
for example: a movie based on a comic book that was invented for the sole purpose of spawning a movie that could then make the
illustrious claim of having been based on a comic book.
A:
Most of all, sir, I was running from myself. I realized
that I had been doing it for a long time.
Q:
Or, say, movie adaptations that end with
the main character, who is a writer, writing
the book that the movie will be based upon.
A:
Yes sir.
Q:
Do you recall, Mr. Saint Claire, the origins
of the word “broadcast”?
A:
It was first an agricultural term, wasn’t it?
Q:
You are correct. It referred to a method of
distributing seed. Of planting.
A:
Yes, I do remember that.
Q:
Mr. Saint Claire, I do not need to state that you
come from a long line of outstanding citizens and
family in this nation of ours, great literary and
educational geniuses. And your father is with us
today, I believe…
A:
My father is a teacher and writer, yes. His students
will tell you how he spoke without notes, pausing at times
to ask opinions or to listen to questions. When asked
a question he would listen carefully, then think a moment,
often with his thumbs hooked into his lapels, before answering.
Q:
And you, you’ve captured the imagination of the public by
exhibiting the mastery of information, earning money, and
redefining culture as performance.
A:
Well, sir, they have not seen my heart they’ve seen only
my demeanor. For three years of this unreal and imaginary life
shall I lose my true and essential life?
Q:
The audience gets to know you inside and outside.
The television camera, they say, is like a magnifying glass
and you can’t enjoy looking at anything blown up for too long.
A:
And at home, in the living room, the TV screen—you
can only look into it, sir. You can’t see through it.
Q:
What does it show?
A:
It’s a mirror, sir. Not a window. It reflects.
Or it lets us retreat or turn away.
Q:
And if it were a window rather?
A:
Well, a window—a real window—can be opened. You
can reach through a window, can’t you?
You can extend yourself.
Q:
Open your consciousness, in other words?
&nb
sp; A:
That’s correct.
Q:
Mr. Saint Claire, there have been some witnesses that have
testified who have taken the position that this was entertainment,
that no one was hurt and that everybody was entertained and everybody was making money and it was all right. That is what
Mr. Lacky tried to sell you, was it not?
A:
Yes.
Q:
At the time when you were considering going on
the quiz show in order to “do a great service to the
intellectual life, to teachers and to education” in general,
were you thinking at all about the effect of your appearance
on the children of this country?
A:
Yes sir, I was.
Q:
Do you mean you thought that your performances, as they have
come out now, would be a good thing for the children
and their respect for education?
A:
I’m sorry, I misunderstood your question.
Q:
We’re taking another break here. Don’t go away.
[advertisement: life insurance]
Q:
Welcome back to the proceeding. Are we on? OK, proceeding.
Mr. Saint Claire, did you not realize at that time the bad
effect this television hoax would have on the
children of the country?
A:
Unfortunately, I did not. Not everyone grows up. Many, perhaps
most people, refuse to face the darkness in them and remain in
a disguise of perpetual childishness. That’s a perilous condition.
You don’t know how such people will react in a crisis. …
We all require a medium through which we can see
our own heart of darkness.
Q:
Boiled down, Mr. Saint Claire, to the essentials,
your statement indicates to me that what you did,
you did for money. Do you agree?
A:
I’m sorry sir, that was not the only reason. Of course, that was a reason, but there was also the promise of winning.
The temptation to win.
Q:
And all throughout your testimony you indicate
that you did not want to lose your $50,000 contract.
On page five of your statement you stated that Mr. Lacky
guaranteed that you would end up winning no less
than a certain amount. Are you in a position to
state what that amount was?
A:
This amount changed from week to week. It was,
before my first appearance, $1,000, before my second $8,000,
and, if I remember correctly, it then went to twelve, fifteen,
twenty-five. I think it was never again discussed after I had been
on the program six or eight times. I assumed thereafter that
I would receive what I had won on the program.
Q:
You assumed you would win both in appearance and in fact—
that whatever amount you had won in appearance
would also be yours in fact?
A:
That’s correct, sir.
Q:
Mr. Saint Claire, do you feel now
that you have won, or do you feel you have lost?
A:
I’ve learned that these things—winning,
losing—they’re not what we think them to be.
Q:
Are you still on the payroll of NBC?
A:
I believe that I was as of the time that I walked
in here today. I don’t know if I am now.
Q:
Are you in fact still employed
by Columbia University?
A:
I believe so, sir, yes.
Q:
Have you any information that they are
in fact intending to relieve you permanently
of your duties at Columbia? Answer in ten seconds,
please—we have another commercial break coming.
A:
I have heard that they probably will relieve me, sir,
although the decision, I understand, has not yet been made.
Q:
Back in a minute, folks.
[advertisement: women’s cosmetics]
Q:
We are back and live in Washington. Kenyon Saint
Claire is our guest. Did you, Mr. Saint Claire, at
any time have any conversation with any sponsor
of any quiz program on which you appeared?
A:
While I was on the program?
Q:
Yes.
A:
No sir.
Q:
You had no conversation
with Pharmaceuticals, Inc.?
A:
No sir.
Q:
Or any representative of that company?
A:
No sir.
Q:
Do you currently take pharmaceuticals yourself?
A:
No sir. Although many, many people do so, I understand.
More people every day.
Q:
A nation breathed each breath with you,
and went out and bought another vial of Geritol.
A:
It’s my understanding that many people did so, sir.
That many people still do so.
Q:
Buy Geritol, you mean?
A:
Geritol, Zarumin, Sominex. Wouldn’t you agree,
sir, that we’re a very tired, very nervous people?
We want safe sleep, wouldn’t you agree?
Q:
Mr. Saint Claire, would you agree that the quest
for self-realization through consumption has hardened
into a virtual science of impression management?
A:
Presto change-o, sir, that’s a thing of the past.
Q:
Wink-o, wink-o, you mean to say, works twice as fast?
A:
Yes sir.
Q:
The raw meat of actuality, shall we say…
A:
The raw meat of actuality finally has succumbed, sir,
to tidy and manageable packaging.
Q:
What is a screen, Mr. Saint Claire?
A:
A thing that divides. A thing people undress behind. A thing
every computer has, in fact a thing computing has distilled itself
increasingly into. Shall I go on, sir?
Q:
Yes please.
A:
A thing we’ll all carry around with us in our pockets one day,
a thing fundamental to western-world human information gathering. A thing that has an appearance of transparency and that divides us from bankers, ticket sellers, post office workers, people with money. A thing people project onto. … Now, may I ask you a question, sir?
Q:
It’s rather irregular.
A:
Allow me to ask, sir. What good
is knowledge if it just … floats in the air?
Q:
It goes from computer to computer.
It changes and grows every second of every day.
A:
But nobody actually knows anything.
Q:
I have n
o further questions.
A:
Sir, before we finish here, can I thank this committee?
I didn’t think anyone would ever want to thank this
committee, but I owe this committee
a great deal in my own heart.
Q:
Mr. Saint Claire, you certainly have
helped clarify the record for the committee’s
benefit and consideration. Maybe this unfortunate
experience will reveal a great deal out of which we
all may get a lot of benefit.
A:
I hope so, sir.
Q:
God bless you, young man.
We are adjourned.
And that’s a wrap.
[advertisement: indigestion powder]
NOVEMBER 3, 1959
The Herald Tribune—The argument in favor of television’s operations as presently constituted is that they give the people what they want. And there is truth in this contention, as can be demonstrated by ratings and sales charts. But the truth is only partial. For television doesn’t give all the people what they want. In its race for ratings it deliberately ignores the needs of the intelligent adult, the inquiring child, the nation which requires intellectual nourishment as well as empty diversion. Who can say how large or how small this audience is—or whether its importance is measured by its size? Who can say what price may eventually have to be paid for the current debasement of taste and deterioration of all standards except the fast sell? The quiz shows may well represent only the first installment of the bill, and not the largest one.
The Post and Times-Herald—At this point in his shattered young life, nothing said about Kenyon Saint Claire can scar him more than he has scarred himself and the good name of his family. For the moment, our question is this: how many men identified with the big and little fixes of life, with the spurious commercial, the fake promotion and all the other artifices of financial salesmanship, are resuming business as usual this morning now that Kenyon Saint Claire has walked into his lonely exile?
The Baltimore Sun—What matters is the set of circumstances that made this particular temptation possible: the time-salesman state of mind that allowed television networks to turn a blind eye to the use of their time on the air so long as they got a good price for it; the scramble for sales which drives advertisers to seek the lowest common denominator of public appeal; the attitude of television producers who, with their eyes fixed on viewer ratings, do not scruple to slaughter truth on the altar of spectacle.
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette—One must conclude sorrowfully that the financial temptations put before a poorly paid teacher were more than he could resist. He fell victim to the always tempting notion that one could get something for nothing, and that one could be whatever one needed for a price or a prize to be. There but for the grace of not having been asked to appear on television may go altogether too many of us.
The New York Times—It remains to be seen whether the aftermath of the quiz scandal is not going to prove just as distasteful as the actual rigging of the contest.