The Sleep of Reason: The James Bulger Case
Page 17
Dale asks Jon if he was angry with James when he pulled the hood from James’s anorak. No, says Jon, I didn’t really want to hurt him, I didn’t want to hurt him or nothing ’cos I didn’t want to hurt him with strong things, only like light things ’cos, ’cos I deliberately missed him with the bricks, but not with the stones. So you only wanted to hurt him a little bit? There is a pause. Answer the question, says Neil. Dale says why did you want to hurt him a little bit? I mean, I didn’t want to hurt him really. Robert probably, I thought Robert, Robert was probably doing it for fun or something, ’cos he was laughing his head off and he grinned at me when I was getting in the car, do you know, when we went to the court. In an evil way.
Jon says he doesn’t remember if James was hit with anything else. He did not steal anything in Tandys, and he doesn’t think Robert stole anything. Robert pulled James’s pants off, and his undies. Jon pulled his shoes off. He doesn’t know why. It was last week. He keeps on forgetting.
Just remember, says Dale, I said like a film. Imagine you’re watching a film, just like that. Try that and tell us what’s going on. I can’t see anything, says Jon. Just try and imagine why, what made you pull his shoes off. I don’t know, just mad, I went, I just went like that. I just went like that. Just something to do. Were you angry? Dale asks. Because you sort of clenched your fist then. No, I wasn’t angry, I was upset.
Robert threw the underpants behind him, then picked them up again and put them on James’s face, where there was all blood on. This was after the iron bar had been thrown. Jon wasn’t looking then, he was crying, he was too upset.
Jon begins crying. I don’t want any more now dad, he’s asking me too hard questions. Jon doesn’t know what else happened to James. Robert done all of it mainly.
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When Bobby’s ninth interview began, just before two o’clock on Saturday afternoon, he had decided, as was his right, not to answer any questions. Jason Lee had retired for a rest, and the solicitor from Paul Rooneys, Dominic Lloyd, had taken over.
Bobby didn’t want to say his name. Lloyd told him it was all right to say his name. Bob Jacobs asks him if he had spoken to another boy, earlier on the Friday. Yeah, well just listen, says Bobby, breaking his vow of silence, I was told, right, in the paper that the two youths that took James were supposed to have done an old granny over four hours later. The officers say they don’t know anything about that, and that isn’t what they were talking to him about.
Jacobs tries to steer Bobby into speaking about the abduction of Mrs Power’s son. He mentions various shops in the Strand — Mothercare, TJ Hughes — and Bobby says he’s heard of them. Jacobs goes through the statement from Mrs Power, referring to the two boys at the purse counter in TJ Hughes. Bobby says he doesn’t even know what they’re talking about. He’s not saying nothing. He then picks Jacobs up over a detail. He says Jacobs has changed the story. Jacobs says he hopes Bobby’s not going to pick him up every time he changes stories, because Bobby changes stories as well, doesn’t he?
Jacobs ploughs on, through the description of events given by Mrs Power. Bobby quibbles here and there, and finally, when Jacobs gets to the part where a boy has waved Mrs Power’s son towards him, Bobby says Jon could have been making a wave and how was he supposed to hear him say, doing that?
All they want to know, says Roberts, is what happened. Bobby says he never seen Jon do it, but he might’ve sneaky done it. Bobby wasn’t in TJ Hughes, and Jon was with him.
Jacobs then starts to go through the description of the two boys supplied by the mother. A boy with a thin face wearing blue jeans and dark training shoes. Blue jeans? Bobby queries. Well it couldn’t’ve been us, we were in school uniform. The other boy is said to be of stocky build. What’s stocky? Bobby queries. It means fattish, says Phil Roberts. Well, it couldrit’ve been me ’cos I don’t eat. Everybody thinks I’m skinny. The boy with a stocky build is also said to have a fat face with a full fringe. I haven’t got fat, says Bobby, it couldn’t’ve been me. I haven’t got a full fringe. Where’s my fringe? And I don’t wear jeans.
The interview goes on like this for several minutes, until, finally, Bob Jacobs tells Bobby he is being arrested for the attempted abduction of Mrs Power’s son. He explains that it’s a new thing Bobby is being arrested for. When do I wear jeans for school, says Bobby.
After the arrest, the officers continue to question Bobby about the incident, and he becomes increasingly awkward. They tell Bobby that Jon has said they planned to throw this boy in front of a car. But we weren’t going to take any boy, says Bobby. Well, Jon says you were. So you take everything he says, do you?
Jacobs. And, of course, the main thing is you’d certainly remember if you and Jon planned to take him away…
Bobby. I know.
Jacobs… and throw him under a car, wouldn’t you?
Bobby. You just said in front of one.
Roberts. Well, in front of one.
Jacobs. That’s what I just said, then.
Bobby. You said under one.
Roberts. Under, yeah, well, just a play on words, it’s just a different, you just choose the same word again. He just said another, another different word.
Jacobs. So you didn’t plan that?
Bobby. No.
They produce the map then, and go through it, marking crosses at the various points Bobby has mentioned. He identifies the fence by City Road, at the opposite end of the entry from Walton Lane, as being the place where they got on to the railway line.
The interview ends, and the next one begins four minutes later. Phil Roberts and Bob Jacobs know they are running out of time now, and they can see that Bobby has become obstructive.
They ask him again about James’s clothing being removed, and he again denies it. They ask him if anyone stuck their hand into James’s mouth. Bobby denies it.
Bob Jacobs wants to tell what Jon has said. Most probably, says Bobby that I’ve took everything off him and I’ve been playing with him. Jacobs asks how he knows that. ’Cos I know he’s going to say that. Playing with what? Roberts asks. His privates, that’s what you said before. What do you mean, privates, what do you mean by privates, it doesn’t matter about the words you use? What I say, says Bobby. What, like his penis, is that what you’re saying? ’Cos Jon’s not going to own up, is he? Bobby says. He begins crying. They’re taking what Jon says. Bobby knows he never touched him.
They again ask Bobby if he touched James’s mouth. No. He’s told the truth, he’s not answering any more. Phil Roberts says that Jon admits taking James’s shoes off. Bobby says Jon might’ve taken his pants off, but Bobby doesn’t know ’cos he got down the post. The officers tell Bobby what Jon has said about the removal of James’s clothing. Bobby is having none of this. So, in other words, he says, you’re taking what Jon says and just ignoring me, so I’ll ignore you.
Bobby is asked about the scratch seen on his face later on the Friday evening. He says it was a spot which he had picked. They ask how his face became so mucky with dirty marks.
Bobby. What do you mean, dirty marks?
Jacobs. What I’m saying. You know what dirty marks are, don’t you?
Bobby. Like sex marks?
Jacobs. Like what?
Bobby. Sex marks, dirty.
Jacobs. Sex marks?
Bobby. Like dirty words?
Roberts. No, marks on your face.
Jacobs. Bobby, you know what dirty marks are, don’t you?
Bobby. Mucky marks.
Roberts. Mucky marks, that’s what.
Jacobs. Haven’t you heard the word dirty used about anything but sex before? Do you only think about dirty as being about sex?
Bobby understands now. Ask his mum, he says, when they play out they always get dirty. The dirt hasn’t come from bricks, ’cos he never touched no bricks. Only little tiny ones they were throwing in the water at the canal.
He is asked about the injury to James’s mouth again. He says it might have come off the stick J
on used. It could be like little buds that it caught on and dragged his mouth down. Or the metal bar, ’cos that fell on his head, and then that might have fell on to his face then and pulled it down.
Roberts says he doesn’t want Bobby to get angry, but he’s got to ask these questions. Did Bobby play with his bottom? No, I never. Okay did you, erm, play with his penis? No. But Jon says that you kicked him between the legs; what do you say to that? No.
Jacobs asks if he or Jon tried to cover the body with stones. Jon did, big stones so you couldn’t see his face. He was trying to stop the blood pouring out of his face. Jacobs asks if Bobby helped Jon. Bobby says he stuck one brick on him. It fell off his face. Jon put it on then it would roll back off. Bobby nods his head, yes, he put the brick back on. I haven’t got a toothbrush in here, says Bobby. Jacobs says they’ll speak to someone about getting him a toothbrush. They end the interview.
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Jon’s eighth interview had begun at twenty past two. The officers reminded Jon of the point he had reached in the previous interview, where James’s clothes had been taken off. Jon said that he and Robert were then pulling bricks onto his face. Covering his face. It was Robert’s idea, so nobody can see him. Jon thinks James was moving, because the bricks were moving a bit, like nearly falling off.
Jon then tells how they ran into Walton village, going through the entries until his mum caught them. He thinks they were on the railway for fifteen minutes, ten minutes, five minutes… no, not five minutes, that would be too short, wouldn’t it?
Mark Dale says he thinks something else has happened that Jon’s missed out. He knows Jon doesn’t want to talk about it, because he started crying before. But he’s got to be brave now, because there’s something important he must tell them, and he knows what it is. Jon says he doesn’t know. Dale says hasn’t he told his mum something today; didn’t someone kick him? Oh yeah, me, says Jon, only light, and I punched him light on the reservoir. Didn’t you push him and didn’t you kick him while you were up at the line? No Robert did. Did he, where? Underneath. Where’s underneath? Jon points to his groin. What do you call it, says Dale, come on, it’s not rude, come on, let’s see what you call it. Willy.
Jon says Robert did that about ten times. He saw his legs going. It was after James’s trousers were taken off. So there was something else, wasn’t there, says Dale. Oh yeah, says Jon. I forgot it. I told me mum last night everything, but it just came out me mind this morning. Dale says, so you kicked him as well, where did you kick him? The chest and the middle there, and I punched him in his face a few times, light. Did you kick him while he was lying down? No, Robert did, you know, he went like that. Stamped on him? Yeah, not in the face I think it was in the legs or something. Dale says they took a pair of Jon’s shoes, and there was blood on them. Jon says he forgot that bit, ’cos he kicked him in the face, and all blood came on his shoes. Jon asks if they took Robert’s shoes. They did. Robert kicked him in the face loads of times. Jon only kicked him once or twice. This happened half way through when Robert was throwing bricks.
Dale asks if Jon had got mad. Must you have been angry to have kicked him? No, I was upset, well, when I got in I was, and I was crying in bed. Well, I bet you were, says Dale, what were your feelings when you were kicking him? Sad, I wasn’t angry or I wouldn’t have been angry for kick… kicking a baby but I’ve never done it before. Robert most probably did, but I’d never, I’d never done it before.
They speak about the paint on Jon’s coat. He thinks James might have touched him on the coat, when he was kneeling down by him, to see if he was all right, to see if his eyes were all right. James said don’t hurt me and I went all right. Could he say those words, could he? Dale asks. No, he said, I’m all right, I’m all right, he was too, he was scared of Robert, he wasn’t scared of me because I never hit him as much.
Robert didn’t kneel down, he was kicking him in the knees and everything and Jon said will you stop it, Bobby, he’s scared and all that.
They begin asking Jon about the batteries and when it comes to asking why the batteries were there, Jon begins to cry. He doesn’t know. He never put them there. They press him, and he becomes more upset. He says Robert threw them, and Scott says it was a little bit more than throwing them. If he tells them what happened to the batteries it’s all over and done with.
Jon is crying. I don’t know, I don’t know, dad. Scott asks if it’s horrible what happened with the batteries. No, I didn’t know anything what Robert done with the batteries. Why are you crying then? Because you’ll blame it on me that I had them.
Dale asks Jon if he remembers what happened yesterday. When we started talking about all this and you said you hadn’t taken James, yeah, and eventually you got very upset didn’t you, but you felt better afterwards didn’t you, when you told us, and you… but you couldn’t really tell us at first, could you? Why couldn’t you tell us? I’m scared. You were scared, okay, but you got brave didn’t you, you eventually managed to come out with it, didn’t you?
Jon still doesn’t know what happened to the batteries. He is asked if Robert touched James anywhere else. If he did anything else to his willy, other than kicking it. Jon becomes distraught. He doesn’t know. He doesn’t. He doesn’t know. He goes to hit his father. Hey, hey, says Dale, don’t go to punch your dad. Jon says me dad thinks I know and I don’t, you’re saying I do, and I don’t. I only know he got killed.
They ask about the bricks placed over the body, and the placing of the underpants. Jon says they’re believing what Robert says. Dale says Robert is telling them a story, and they need Jon to tell them one as well. They ask about James’s mouth. Jon says he did not put his fingers in James’s mouth. Who did? He doesn’t know, he never saw nothing. Dale says he’s got to admit to himself that he saw everything that happened there, because he was a part of it, so he can’t say he didn’t see. Jon is crying. He didn’t put his fingers in his mouth. He wants his mum. He continues crying and he is inconsolable. He wants his mum. He doesn’t know anything else… end of interview.
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There had been discussion all day about how long the interviews could continue. Unquestionably, they had enough to charge the boys, but could they elicit further admissions, or were the interviews becoming counterproductive as the boys became tired? In any case, they could only hold Bobby and Jon until early on Sunday morning, without charging them. If they continued to interview it might leave the inquiry open to accusations that they had pushed too hard and too far with the interviews. A judge could throw the lot out.
Phil Roberts made it known that he wanted to continue. It was a frustrating situation, especially with Bobby who had denied so much. There were still so many uncertainties.
Finally, the decision was made. The boys would be charged that evening. The media would be notified, and so too would the Bulger family.
There would be one last session of questioning. The boys would be taken out, separately, and driven over the route to explain exactly which way they had walked with James. It would have been better to walk the route with them, but their safety would have been at risk. They went in unmarked cars, the same people who had been in the stationary interviews, with a back-up car following behind, just in case there were problems. They went at different times, to avoid an unscheduled meeting, and Jon went first.
As they drove down from Lower Lane to the Strand, Jon wanted to know what Dale and Scott would do if there were a whole lot of photographers in the middle of the road taking pictures. Dale said he’d smile, probably. Jon said he’d run them over. He said photographers probably sneaked up on them now. They were good hiders, they go in little gaps and take loads of pictures.
Jon said he was going to sing a song to himself, only they’d be hearing the song all the way through. Dale said he could keep them entertained. They’d have a karaoke. He asked what song Jon had been going to sing. Jon said it was the one thingy sings. He began singing, and carried on, at intervals, over much of the journey.
He pointed out the various places they had been, the junctions they had crossed. He said he had been in the entry between City Road and Walton Lane when he threw the hood into the tree, not on the railway line that ran alongside it. He said they had got on to the railway line by the fence on Walton Lane, near the bridge, opposite the police station.