Death Trip

by Johnny Satan

  CM: No, no, no, no, nothing’s played…

  TS: But it’s so simple. Try it, try it, try it.

  CM: No, nothing‘s yes or no. No. You, you go, go, go through your little boxes and things. You know, look, look here, uh, first you have to see where I’m coming from.

  TS: Not on that question, there’s no coming from anywhere on that question Charles. [long pause] Did you do that?

  CM: [very long silence]

  TS: Chair’s getting hot huh? [long silence] Get mad, get angry, come over here and hit me if you like, but why don’t you answer the question?

  CM: Hit you?

  TS: If you’d like.

  CM: Nah.

  TS: But answer the question.

  CM: I don’t want to hit you. I, uh, got out of prison and I went up in the streams and I saw a big fat dead rat laying in the water.

  TS: I’m gonna ask the question again Charles.

  CM: Uh-huh.

  TS: I’m gonna ask the same question again.

  CM: [long pause] Same question again. [pause] Did I break the law? Is that your question?

  TS: No, the question was that on the night following the murders or the killings or whatever else you want to call it at the Melcher home...

  CM: Mmmmhmmm.

  TS: On Cielo Drive in Los Angeles, newspaper accounts claim that you, Krenwinkel, Atkins, Kasabian and Watson went to the home of Mr. & Mrs. LaBianca in Los Angeles, that you went inside the house, tied them up, assured them that they would not be hurt, then went back outside and sent the other four in.

  CM: Who told you that?

  TS: Newspaper accounts... I do... newspaper accounts and this is one of the things that for which you were convicted of in a courtroom in Los Angeles. Now here’s your chance before the whole world to tell it straight once and for all. Did you do that?

  CM: Did I kill anyone?

  TS: No, did you go in and tie up the LaBiancas that night? Very simple question.

  CM: That night..

  TS: August 10th 1969 .

  CM: That night, August the 10th, 1969.

  TS: Did you? Why duck it, why dodge it? Why not answer yes or no once and for all put it behind you?

  CM: [very long pause] mmmhmmm... [long pause] Did I kill anyone?

  TS: Did you tie up the LaBiancas? [long pause] Atkins testified you did.

  CM: [long pause] That‘s what Susie said?

  TS: That’s what she said.

  CM: Yeah?

  TS: And you remember it. You were in the courtroom when she said it.

  CM: [chuckles] She’s written three books, and each time she’s said something different.

  TS: Mmmhmmm.

  CM: Each time.

  TS: Did you tie them up?

  CM: Did I?

  TS: Mmmhmm.

  CM: [long silence] Well, we came down from Aberdeen, and uh...

  TS: Let’s stay in Los Angeles August 10th, 1969.

  CM: And there was a hole-in-the-wall gang there.

  TS: [long pause] Why don’t you want to talk about it Charles? Why don’t you want…

  CM: Because I’m an outlaw and I go so far and then that’s all you know.

  TS: And if you did...

  CM: That’s like asking Jessie James “are you going to shoot somebody?”

  TS: And if, and if, and if, and if as others have written and others have testified and as the media has reported you did that, and you sent your friends back in to do the deed, aren’t you a coward?

  CM: Oh, my friends back in to do the terrible deed.

  TS: Doesn’t that make you...

  CM: The wicked deed. Um, did we have the castle there with the vampires and the Frankenstein, and the bugs and lizards dying in the desert? Did we have the water that is dying and the whales that are being killed and the seals…

  TS: Here we go again, lay it off on someone else.

  CM: Well...

  TS: Let’s point to all the other injustices.

  CM: Oh, I’m in the world all by myself?

  TS: Yeah, on this one you are. Yeah.

  CM: Yeah, hmmm, it’s ok, if that’s the way you see it for you.

  TS: Well, whether you like it or not Charles, all those things that happened that August in Los Angeles are identified as the Manson Killings.

  CM: Yeah, that’s what your history book will tell you.

  TS: So you can sit here and talk about the whales and Hiroshima and you can sit and talk about the environment and the Great Lakes and that’s all fine, but what it really comes down to in this particular instance is that this one is your ballgame.

  CM: Well if I could get some help from the doctor then I could get my mind straightened out a little bit and I come back and play like a human.

  TS: Well, you’ve never talked about this before, but I’m gonna try it one more time.

  CM: Yeah. Now, now, now...

  TS: You can see...

  CM: You got a pistol on you?

  TS: No sir. They wouldn’t let me in here if I had a pistol, you know that as well as I do, so why even ask the question? Okay?

  CM: Well, I just thought you might not like what I have done and want to do something about it.

  TS: I don’t much care for what you’ve done.

  CM: Yeah.

  TS: A lot of people don’t. How do you feel about that?

  CM: Well...

  TS: They think you are a monster, Charles.

  CM: Yeah, they think you are a monster because you reflect this news media on me. Cult leader. I never had long hair before I got busted. I never had a beard before I got busted. I went to shave and the guy’s “No, you can’t shave”, I said “I need a razor to shave”, he said “No you can’t shave” I said “Let me get a hair cut” he said “no we don’t want you to change your appearance.” So when you, first put that camera on me you got long hair and a beard. First time in my life I’ve got long hair and a beard.

  TS: You want, you want a shave and get a hair cut? I’ll shut them off and you’ll get a shave and a hair cut.

  CM: Am I telling him right? I’m not of this generation.

  TS: You want a shave and a hair cut right now? I’ll shut them down right now if you want a shave and a hair cut.

  CM: Yeah, yeah I was trying to explain to you man, that a lot of what they pushed of on me is not me. They said I had a great family and I was the followers and leader. There was no followers and leaders, bunch of kids out at the ranch playing, to me.

  TS: Playing at what?

  CM: Playing at living.

  TS: The accounts say that you, that you gave them dope. I’m just saying what the accounts say.

  CM: Oh yeah.

  TS: I’m not saying I know it to be so. So here’s your chance to say that it wasn’t true.

  CM: Yeah, yeah.

  TS: That there was a lot of hanky panky. That you turned the girls on with dope and sex out there. That’s...

  CM: That’s what they said.

  TS: Alright that’s what they said, well are they wrong?

  CM: Oh! Well! I went down to Haight-Ashbury and a little kid 10 years old came up and said “You want an acid pill?” I said “what’s that?” he said “This is good. Make colors go” I said “No, I’ve heard of them things. I don’t want none of that.” And then, then another little kid was rolling a joint, and they were sitting there smoking a joint and asked me if I wanted one.

  TS: What’d you say?

  CM: I said “I used to smoke this stuff in the 60’s but it never, or the 50’s but it really, really wasn’t, you know, it was funny but it’s not…” TS: How much dope did you do in your lifetime? Were you a heavy user of dope?

  CM: No. I smoked a little grass and I’ve taken some acid, mescaline, uh, psilocybin, peyote, mushroom. But actually take uh dope, no. Nothing. I’d never take anything that I feel would actually hurt me.

  TS: Do you feel that those things that you just mentioned hurt you at all Charles?

  CM: Uh, physically or spirit
ually?

  TS: Mentally.

  CM: And then on what level? On the level of society the way you view the norm?

  TS: No, no, no, no, no, no. Stop the hogwash. Do you feel that the drugs that you did use in your earlier life time confused you, altered your mind, uh juggled, scrambled, made you see things differently, uh stay on that level if you can.

  CM: Maybe I find a uh, spirit of uh, cave man-think-through-brain.

  TS: Let me try it again.

  CM: [laughs]

  TS: Do you think the drugs you used hurt you?

  CM: Nah. Drugs hurt me? No I don’t think the drugs have hurt me. If I overdone it I think it would.

  TS: You don’t want to be anybody’s leader do you?

  CM: No.

  TS: Never did want to be anybody‘s leader?

  CM: No. Don‘t like attention.

  TS: Mmmmhmmmm. Then why do you...

  CM: Most insecure people need attention. I don’t.

  TS: I was just going to say then, if you don’t want attention, why do you keep, why all your life have you kept waving your arms saying “Hey look at me”?

  CM: That’s what I’ve been doing all my life?

  TS: Well I have to say a young man..

  CM: Let me see if I’ve got that documented.

  TS: ...Who by the time he’s 20 years old has been in and out of jails and reform schools for a variety of offenses that include wife beating... homo...

  CM: [chuckles] Wife beating?! Now that bullshit, I’ve never whipped my old lady.

  TS: Didn’t you?

  CM: No, I punched my mother out once.

  TS: Oh you did, alright, we’ll call it mother beating. Uh, forging checks...

  CM: But she was wrong. She lied to me and beat me for my money, and she, she didn’t do right. You know what I mean?

  TS: Forging checks, uh car theft, I mean these are ways of waving your arms and saying “Look at me, give me some attention”.

  CM: Yeah.

  TS: And you say you don’t want attention. Now Charles, that’s a contradiction.

  CM: Yeah.

  TS: That doesn’t make any sense.

  CM: Well over a period of about 20 years, I would imagine you’d would want to change something. I’m not very wise to many things. But I am wise to one thing, you know.

  TS: What’s that?

  CM: Well I’m not gonna to tell you.

  TS: Ok. You punched your mother, did you hate your mother?

  CM: Nah, I loved my mother, she’s a good girl.

  TS: What about your wife, you were married once weren‘t you?

  CM: Yeah.

  TS: How’d that go? Why’d you wanna get married? That’s kinda conventional, that’s kind of normal. that’s kinda of in the rut as you say to get married isn’t it?

  CM: [laughs] I got married, cause I wanted to get in that [inaudible] That’s why I got married.

  TS: Oh yeah? Married for sex was the reason you got married?

  CM: Yeah, I did know what was happening. I knew something was happening but no one would tell me so I had to find out, you know, I didn’t have books like you guys, you know, Playboys and stuff in them days. I had to find out for myself.

  TS: Mmmmhmmm. Why do you think that all us guys are playboys? That we can’t...

  CM: AH MAN! I didn’t say you were playboys, I was talking about Playboy magazine-type thought man!

  TS: Ok, ok, ok, ok, ok, ok. You had a son by that marriage didn’t you?

  CM: Uh yeah, I got a kid somewhere.

  TS: Do you think about him?

  CM: Uh, not, about as much as my father did me.

  TS: So two wrongs make a right, Charles?

  CM: No I didn’t say there’s anything wrong with the way my dad’s been taking care of me. He lets me live, [laughs] I’m alive, you know.

  TS: I remember you saying, or being quoted…

  CM: Thank you.

  TS: In a courtroom in Los Angeles as saying “The children who came at you with knives are your children.”

  CM: Yeah, I didn’t raise ’em. You raised ’em.

  TS: “You are the ones that kicked them out. You are responsible for what they’ve done.”

  CM: That’s right, just as much as I am.

  TS: Mmmhmmm, so you, in my mind, were criticizing society for kicking their children out.

  CM: Sure.

  TS: And yet I’ve just seen you sit here and say “Yeah, I’ve got a kid somewhere.”

  CM: Yeah.

  TS: How can you criticize other people for kicking their kids out and you did the same thing?

  CM: Difference, difference, difference on many levels. Difference. See my old lady left me and run off with a truck driver. She said “let’s steal a car and go to California.” and I said “Man, I ain’t gonna steal no car and go off to California and go back to jail.” She said “We won’t get caught”. Well we didn’t get caught, just I got caught. She didn’t get caught. So then she had a kid and then some truck driver came along, and I was a green kid and didn’t know what I was doin’, you know. So she says “ You know, I got a ride, you know, see you later.” So she took off and got married to someone else, you know. She’s a good girl.

  TS: And besides the son from your marriage, you’ve got, what, four other children somewhere?

  CM: Oh I don’t, uh, uh, think I’ve been uh, uh, uh, responsible for as much as you people want to lay on me.

  TS: Well how many children do you have Charles?

  CM: How many children do I have? Uh, I don’t know, I’ve got lots of children, man. Uh, in fact sometimes I even think that you’re a child.

  TS: But you just said you don’t have any children, you don’t have any family in the context of the Ranch. I’m talking about children that [sighs] are your, uh, natural children.

  CM: How many are my natural ego?

  TS: No, children.

  CM: Oh children? I would divide one child from the other?

  TS: Alright, somewhere out there, somewhere there’s at least one son that we know of that is your child, who’s probably about 25 or 26 years old right now.

  CM: Is that right?

  TS: Yeah. Look into that camera. What do you say to that kid? What do you say to your son out there, who’s watching his old man on television. Maybe the first time he’s ever seen his old man with his face all carved up and his eyes glowering. You talk to that kid, what are you going say to him?

  CM: You gotta catch it on your own boy. The train’s hard. The road’s rough.

  TS: And that’s it?

  CM: That’s all I knew. That’s all anyone ever told me.

  TS: Alright. [sighs]

  CM: And you wanna hear something?

  TS: Yeah.

  CM: He’ll do it better than me. [chuckles]

  TS: Do what?

  CM: Whatever he does, [chuckles] he’ll do it a little better. Kids do, don’t they?

  TS: Sometimes.

  CM: Yeah, [chuckles] that’s what makes them such a gas. They always seem to get through.

  TS: [sighs] There was a story of a celebrity hit list..

  CM: Was you ever a kid once?

  TS: Absolutely.

  CM: Yeah?

  TS: Still am in many ways.

  CM: Hmmmmm.

  TS: But not, not, not your way.

  CM: Oh my way? I don’t know what my way is, everybody keeps telling me I got all these things. I read the other day where I had magical powers, and I told everybody in the chapel, I said “ZAP-ZAP-ZAP-ZAP”. I said “where’s my magical powers?” Well you can’t, you can’t believe what you read in the press. I ain’t got no magical powers and mystical trips and all that kind of crap. [pause] Yeah, it’s kind of silly. Yeah, you got witches and devils and uh... One guy came up and said “I heard you said your Jesus” I said “Nah man, I ain’t said nothing.” He said “I’m glad.” He said “I’m damn glad.” I said “Why?” He said “I know you ain’t him.” I said “How do you know?” He said “Bec
ause I am.” [laughs] I said “Ok”. But I mean, you know I’ve been in the nut ward for the last 10 years, so you can’t expect me to, uh, to rationally take thing stuff serious.

  TS: Don’t you think that you belong in the nut ward?

  CM: It’s alright. I can deal with that.

  TS: I mean don’t you belong there?

  CM: Belong, where, I belong where I am allowed to go, man like, uh, you know, I belong there…

  TS: Let me nail down one of the real simple ones, listen how simple this is Charles. There was a story in the media, back when the trial was going on that Charles Manson had a celebrity hit list. I don’t know who was on it, maybe there never was such a list. But was there a list of people, famous people that you thought about harassing, bothering?

  CM: If I wanted to harass them I just wouldn’t watch their TV show.

  TS: Talk to me about your life in prison in terms of you being in isolation. You are not on what is called the main line. You don’t, you’re not in with the prison population here, how do you feel about that?

  CM: How do I feel about it? I don’t feel about it.

  TS: Would you rather not be in isolation?

  CM: Oh I’ve been trying to get on the main line, I’ve been trying to get to the prison for the last 13 years.

  TS: Why?

  CM: Why? Walk around, play some handball, play a little guitar. Uh, do my number, do my time like any convict does. Like I’ve always done. Like my mind been set to do. Like my uh, past lives have been in jail, doing time in jail. In fact when I got out I just got outside and sat down. I wasn’t going nowhere, I gave up, see.

  TS: If you were on the mainline, wouldn’t you be exposed to some dangers?

  CM: Come on man.

  TS: What?

  CM: If you’re thinking exposure to danger, then that danger you’re thinking is coming around you.

  TS: Well look what happened to James Earl Ray? Heard about didn’t you?

  CM: Uh, James Early Ray’s got his problems, I’ve got mine.

  TS: Have you heard? He got stuck.

  CM: Yeah.

  TS: 22 times.

  CM: Some people died in India too.

  TS: Got stuck.

  CM: And some other people died in Hawaii.

  TS: You wouldn’t be scared…

  CM: People are dying all over.

  TS: You wouldn’t be frightened or afraid then of the uh, of the uh, prison population trying to make a hit on you.

  CM: Man, I’ve been staying alive in prison this long without no help.