Oswald's Tale: An American Mystery

by Norman Mailer

  I went over [again] and I was surprised when I recognized that the guy . . . was Lee Harvey Oswald [and when] he recognized me, he was also surprised, but just for a few seconds. Immediately he smiled to me and he offered the hand to shake hands with me. I became more angry and I start to tell him that he don’t have any face to do that, with what face he was doing that? . . . He was a Castro agent . . .

  That was a Friday around 3 o’clock at this moment, and many people start to gather around us to see what was going on over there. I start to explain to the people what Oswald did to me, because I wanted to move the American people against him, not to take the fight for myself as a Cuban but to move the American people to fight him, and I told them that he was a Castro agent, that he was a pro-Communist, and that he was trying to do to them exactly what he did to us in Cuba, kill them and send their children to the execution wall. Those were my phrases at the moment.

  The people in the street became angry and started to shout to him, “Traitor! Communist! Go to Cuba! Kill him!” and some other phrases . . . bad phrases, bad words.7

  At that moment, a policeman arrived and told Bringuier to keep walking:

  MR. BRINGUIER. [The policeman said] to let Oswald distribute his literature that he was handing out—yellow leaflets of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, New Orleans Chapter—and I told to the policeman that I was a Cuban, I explained to him what Oswald did to me, and I told him . . . that I will not leave that place until Oswald left and that I will make some trouble.

  The policeman left, I believe going to some place to call the headquarters, and at that moment my friend Celso took the literature from Oswald, the yellow sheets, and broke it and threw it on the air. There were a lot of yellow sheets flying. And I was more angry, and . . . I took my glasses off and I went near to him to hit him, but when he sensed my intention, he put his arm down as an X, like this here (demonstrating).

  MR. LIEBELER. He crossed his arms in front of him?

  MR. BRINGUIER. That is right, put his face and told me, “OK, Carlos, if you want to hit me, hit me.”

  At that moment, that made me to reaction that he was trying to appear as a martyr if I will hit him, and I decide not to hit him, and just a few seconds later arrive two police cars, and . . . they put Oswald and my two friends in one of the police cars, and I went . . . in the other police car to the First District of Police here in New Orleans [and now] we were in the same room, one small room over there, and some of the policemen start to question Oswald if he was a communist . . . and Oswald at that moment [was] really cold blood. He was answering the questions that he would like to answer, and he was not nervous, he was not out of control, he was confident in himself at that moment over there.8

  MR. LIEBELER. Now it doesn’t seem likely, does it, that Oswald would go around handing out literature in the streets like he did if he was actually attempting to infiltrate the anti-Castro movement?

  MR. BRINGUIER. Remember that that was after I turned down his offer and after I told him that I don’t have nothing to do with military activities and here there is nothing, and that I turned down completely him . . . he went openly to do that after he was turned down . . . 9

  Oswald had landed in jail late on Friday afternoon—not the easiest time to get out. Dutz Murret was away on a three-day religious retreat, Lillian Murret was in the hospital for an eye operation, and the only person available to help him was his cousin Joyce Murret O’Brien, one of Lillian’s daughters. She certainly did not get her cousin out on Friday night, but Joyce did stay at the jail long enough to tell the authorities that Lee Harvey Oswald had been in Russia.

  MRS. MURRET . . . . she had been there twice with the money in her hand, and each time she came back out again . . . She told me she had talked to this officer there and [that] the man told her not to be foolish and give her money up like that, because she might not get it back . . . . He said, “Have somebody parole him.” So Joyce didn’t know what to do. She had been out of New Orleans a long time . . . . This officer showed her the sign they said Lee was carrying . . . “Viva El Castro,” so when Joyce saw that . . . “Oh, my God,” she said, “I am not about to get him out of here if he’s like that,” so she didn’t . . . give up her money. She said, “Here he was supposed to be out looking for a job, and he was doing things like that, walking up and down Canal Street all day long with signs and everything.”10

  Next morning, Oswald was the center of attention. That seems to be equal to saying that he was calm and cool. The officer questioning him was Lieutenant Francis Martello of the Intelligence Division of the New Orleans police force, and he compiled a report of their meeting.

  . . . I then asked him if he was a communist and he said he was not, I asked him if he was a socialist and he said ‘guilty.’ We then spoke at length concerning the philosophies of communism, socialism, and America. He said he was in full accord with the book Das Kapital, which book was written by KARL MARX. I know that this book condemns the American way of government in entirety. I asked him if he thought that the communist way of life was better than the American way of life and he replied there was not true communism in Russia. He said that MARX . . . was not a communist but a socialist. He stated this was the reason he did not consider himself to be a communist. I asked him what was his opinion of the form of communism in Russia since he had lived there for two years and he replied, ‘It stunk.’ He said they have ‘fat stinking politicians over there just like we have over here,’ . . . I asked him what he thought about President JOHN F. KENNEDY and NIKITA KHRUSHCHEV. He said he thought they got along very well together. I then asked him if he had to place allegiance or make a decision between Russia or America, which he would choose and he said, ‘I would place my allegiance at the foot of democracy.’11

  MR. LIEBELER. Now, your memorandum indicates that you asked Oswald what he thought about President Kennedy and Premier Khrushchev . . .

  MR. MARTELLO . . . . all of his thoughts seemed to go in the direction of the Socialist or Russian way of life, but he showed in his manner of speaking that he liked the President, the impression I got, or if he didn’t like him, of the two he disliked the President the least. He is a very peculiar type of an individual, which is typical of quite a few of the many demonstrators that I have handled during the period of 2 years while in the Intelligence Division. They seemed to be trying to find themselves or something. I am not expert in the field or anything, not trying to go out of my bounds, but quite a few of them, after lengthy interviews you find that they have some peculiarities about their thinking that does not follow logically with their movements or their action.

  MR. LIEBELER. Did he indicate which [country] in his opinion, was the lesser of the two evils?

  MR. MARTELLO. From the way he spoke, the impression I received, it appeared to me that he felt Russia was the lesser of the two evils.

  MR. LIEBELER. Did he express this idea with great forcefulness, or just sort of a “pox on both your houses” fashion, that really it was just too ridiculous, and that sort of thing?

  MR. MARTELLO. With a nonchalant attitude. He was a very cool speaker . . . no aggressiveness or emotional outbursts in any way, shape, or form. It was just a very calm conversation we had, and there was no emotion involved whatsoever.

  MR. LIEBELER. Did he show any hesitancy about expressing these ideas to you as a member of the police department?

  MR. MARTELLO. None whatsoever, sir.12

  Oswald is thirsty for conversation. He will speak to anyone. He wishes to establish himself as a unique figure in the political, social, and police theatre of New Orleans. Since we have yet to steal up to the question of whether he was doing all this entirely for himself or was receiving a stipend from some official, semi-official, or impromptu group, a few sinister possibilities have to be kept in mind. Yet not unduly so. We have not grasped anything of Oswald if we assume that if he is being paid by the FBI to perform their left-wing activities, we are obliged to change all our ideas of him. Even if he was d
oing a little work for the FBI, there is no need to assume he was loyal to them. His fealty would be to himself and to his own ideas. Any actions he performed for others—if indeed he did—would be adapted to his personal agenda, which was to get to Cuba with impressive credentials. Creating attention for FPCC in New Orleans would not only serve the aim of the FBI to enhance a few Red-baiting possibilities, but would increase his own importance.

  Stimulated to the hilt, therefore, by police interest in him, he now informs Lieutenant Martello that he wishes to be interviewed by somebody from the FBI. He has obviously enjoyed talking to Martello, and must be in a state of high adrenaline. He is ready for ultimates—so why not test his wits with an FBI man? If we need a more self-serving motive, it is fair to assume he was also afraid—what with the virulence of local anti-Castro sentiments—of getting roughed up and/or raped in that jail; given the shilly-shallying of cousin Joyce, he might have to spend another night in the can. Requesting the presence of an FBI man would give the prison personnel and the prison population a few second thoughts about taking him on.

  Special Agent John Quigley’s testimony on their meeting is a model demonstration of how the FBI can reduce an uncommon event to a common one:

  MR. QUIGLEY . . . . At one point of the interview he told me that he had held one of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee meetings at his home. I asked him, “Well, how did you get in touch with the other people?” “Well, I don’t care to discuss that.” “Who were the persons at the meeting?” “I don’t know.” “Did you know any names at all?” “Yes. They were introduced to me by first names only.” “What were their first names?” “I cannot remember.” So it was apparent to me that he was certainly not going to furnish anything . . . for example, I asked him about A. J. Hidell . . . “Well, Mr. Hidell had a telephone.” “What was Mr. Hidell’s telephone number?” “Mr. Hidell’s telephone has been disconnected.” “What was the number?” “I can’t remember.”13

  MR. STERN. Would it be usual, or had it occurred before that someone would ask for an interview and then refuse to respond to your questions? Didn’t that seem strange?

  MR. QUIGLEY. Not necessarily; not necessarily. Frequently people will have a problem and want to talk to an FBI agent and they want to tell them what their problem is, but then when you start probing into it then they don’t want to talk to you. I think that is just human nature. If you are probing too deep it gets a little touchy.14

  After Joyce had come back without Lee, Lillian Murret called a friend of the family, Emile Bruneau, a state boxing commissioner who got Oswald out on his own recognizance until his trial, Monday, August 12. Lee came home from jail late that Saturday morning, August 10.

  On Friday night, Marina had not fallen asleep until three in the morning, but she had not felt anything like the dread she had known on the night of April 10 in Dallas. Here on Magazine Street, his rifle was still in the closet, and so she assumed correctly that he had been arrested for distributing his pamphlets.

  McMillan: Lee arrived home in scapegrace good spirits, dirty, rumpled, unshaven, with a glint of humor in his eye and an air of gaiety about him. “I’ve been to the police station.”

  “I thought so,” said Marina. “So that’s the way it turned out.”

  She wanted to know where he slept. He explained that the beds had no mattresses, so he had taken off all his clothes and made a mattress of them.

  “You slept without any pants on?”

  “It was hot. And it was just men, anyway. If they didn’t like it, they could have let me out sooner.”15

  Oswald was taking his pants off, and to hell with what every hungry con thought of his ass. Or so he claimed. But we know that he knew better. One doesn’t take one’s pants off on a one-night stand in jail.

  McMillan: That evening, Dutz Murret, home from the retreat, went immediately to the Oswalds’. He noticed with horror Castro’s photograph pinned to the wall, and asked Lee straight out if he was part of any “Commie” group. Lee answered that he was not. Dutz told him in no uncertain terms to show up in court the next day and, after that, go out, get a job, and support his family.16

  MR. BRINGUIER. On August 12, we appear in the second municipal court in New Orleans. I came first with my friends, and there were some other Cubans there, and I saw when Oswald came inside . . . See, here in the court you have two sides, one for the white people and one for the colored people, and . . . he sat directly among [the colored people] in the middle, and that made me angry too, because I saw that he was trying to win the colored people for his side. When he will appear in the court, he will defend Fidel Castro, he will defend the Fair Play for Cuba, and the colored people will feel good for him, and that is a tremendous work of propaganda for his cause. This is one of the things that made me to think that he was really a smart guy and not a nut.17

  Oswald pled guilty to “disturbing the peace,” paid a $10 fine, and left. His coup of sitting among the blacks may have balanced his annoyance at having to accept the fine, but then, his feelings for blacks could have been genuine. Moreover, it was hardly a cheap gesture. Only two months had passed since Medgar Evers had been gunned down in Mississippi.

  Was Oswald oblivious of the irony that Emile Bruneau, a big-time gambler, had helped to get him out of jail? That had been fitting. He had been gambling all his life for the largest personal stakes. Like his brethren, he had runs of luck, and doubtless he believed that you had to run with your luck and bet double with your winnings.

  Since the lecture at the Jesuit House of Studies had gone well and his arrest had just established his credentials to speak for Castro’s Cuba, it was now time to search out the media.

  McMillan: On Friday, August 16 . . . Lee waited with unaccustomed patience for Marina to iron his favorite shirt. He had already called the local TV stations to tell them that there would be a Fair Play for Cuba demonstration that day in front of the Trade Mart building in downtown New Orleans.

  Lee hired two recruits . . . to help him hand out his leaflets. The fifteen- or twenty-minute demonstration went off without trouble, and pictures of Lee were shown on the televised news that night.18

  The media arrived next day at 8:00 A.M. in the form of a thin, bearded man named William Kirk Stuckey, who had a radio program on WDSU called “Latin Listening Post.”

  8

  Fair Play

  MR. STUCKEY . . . . I went early because I wanted to get him before he left.

  MR. JENNER. This was a Saturday?

  MR. STUCKEY. It is a Saturday. I knocked on the door, and this young fellow came out, without a shirt. He had a pair of Marine Corps fatigue trousers on. I asked him, “Are you Lee Oswald?” And he said, “Yes.”

  I introduced myself and I told him I would like to have him on my program that night . . . . He said he would ask me in for some coffee but that his wife and baby were sleeping so we had better talk on the porch.1

  Oswald showed him a pamphlet of a speech by Fidel Castro translated into English—“The Revolution Must Be a School of Unfettered Thought”—and another by Sartre, “Ideology and Revolution.”

  MR. STUCKEY . . . . I asked him about the membership of this organization, and he said there were quite a few . . . members. The figure 12 or 13 sticks in my head, I don’t really recall why now.2

  Oswald and twelve apostles. An ideologue dreaming of world-shaking action, he takes it for granted that he can find points of identification with everyone from Jesus to Hitler.

  MR. JENNER. Just give your best recollection of what he said on that occasion.

  MR. STUCKEY . . . .he was very vehement, insisting he was not the president, but was the secretary, and that was the occasion in which he pulled out his card showing that . . . this other gentleman, Hidell, was the president . . . He appeared to be a very logical, intelligent fellow, and the only strange thing about him was his organization. [It seemed incongruous that] he should associate with a group of this type . . . he did not seem the type at all . . . I was arrested by hi
s cleancutness . . . I expected a folksinger type . . . somebody with a beard and sandals and . . . instead I found a fellow who was neat and clean, [and] seemed to be very conscious about all of his words, all of his movements, sort of very deliberate . . . He was the type of person you would say would inspire confidence. This was the incongruity that struck me, the fact that this type of person should be with this organization . . .

  I asked him to meet me at the radio station that afternoon about 5 o’clock . . . and he agreed [to give] a recorded interview prior to the broadcast.

  MR. JENNER. Why would you do that?

  MR. STUCKEY. To avoid the possibility of errors. It is a risky business going on live. You know, you never know when you are going to slip up and, particularly, with somebody as controversial as a representative of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee you want to know what you have in hand before you put it on.3

  The excerpt that follows is taken from the full thirty-seven-minute interview. This passage and the debate Oswald will have with anti-Castro spokesmen a few days later are two of the best examples of his style of speaking and his skill in argument. If he had not been dyslexic, it is more than likely that he would have been able to write at least as well as he spoke, and that would have been not unimpressive for a twenty-three-year-old polemicist.