PomPoms Up!

by Carol Cleveland

  MAN: It’s Deirdre.

  “He goes on to seduce the wife right there in front of the rather dull Mr. Pewtey who rabbits on about how he has begun to suspect his wife. It was obvious that we would need a real woman to play this role. It just wouldn’t work if it was one of us. So it was John Howard Davies who first brought Carol into our lives. She would fit right in.

  “Now I look at it again it is surprising to me that Carol has no lines in that scene, so strong was her impact, but from that very first show there was never a doubt that if it’s a real woman you need Carol’s your man.

  “She didn’t do the very first live Python show at The Coventry Festival but she certainly came out on Tour with us around the UK, and flew with us later the same year on the Tour of Canada. She didn’t do Drury Lane either, she must have been working, but she was there for the weeks in New York’s City Center and of course the final live performances at The Hollywood Bowl. If you look at Monty Python Live you will see that she has described perfectly her own feelings and impressions on being on the road with this diverse but diverting group of young men.

  “It can’t have been easy for her. We were a wilful lot. A bunch of opinionated writers with a determination to break the rules of television comedy; but she fit right in, and we were fortunate to find her, and I am glad to say that when I insisted she be at The O2 Reunion Concert everyone agreed right away. There was no question about it. You can simply rely on Carol.”

  In the book, Monty Python Speaks, when talking about Monty Python’s Flying Circus you are quoted as saying: “Also, we had no girls to sulk or feel left out (i.e. Saturday Night Live) and we would happily grab most of the girl’s parts for ourselves. Serve ‘em right, too. Get their own bloody shows! How many men are in the Spice Girls?” And yet, Carol WAS the featured ‘girl’. Does this mean you would have preferred MPFC to have been all male?

  EI: “Of course not. I have always known the benefit of having funny females around, ever since Cambridge where as President of the Footlights I changed the rules in place since 1883, to permit women to join for the first time. And of course the success of Spamalot is due to taking Monty Python and adding women! But Python simply was all male. All the power, all the writing, and all the decisions. Like it or not, regret it or not, that’s the way it was.”

  Carol was only meant to be in the first four episodes of MPFC. What made you decide to keep her on as a featured artist?

  EI: “She was very good at what she did. She was picked by a former child star and he must have seen and admired what she did. If you look at his casting for Fawlty it is impeccable.”

  Did Carol’s comic sense of timing and comic credibility gel from the start with the direction of the Pythons and did you or any other of the team assist directorially in her integration and if so how fast would you say Carol was in adapting to the Python’s brand of humour?

  EI: “I think nobody knew what they were doing. The Python style is only noticeable in hindsight. Carol is very beautiful and naturally funny. She is self-effacing, never difficult to work with and quite fearless. She would never have lasted with such a demanding gang of men otherwise.”

  Did these talents earmark certain characters for her to portray when it came to writing material for the team?

  EI: “We never wrote material “for” anyone. We wrote a funny show and then cast it. That was what I was trying to convey in my quote about Saturday Night Live. There was a definite need for them to write material “for” the girls, but we never had that problem. We simply wrote as funny as we could, usually seven shows at a time, and then sat around and cast it. Whenever we needed a real woman to play a part, she was the one.”

  What sketches do you recall as stand-out performances of Carol’s within the output, TV, stage and film, of the Pythons?

  EI: “Marriage Guidance Counsellor. Her first role. Obviously. She was very funny in Scott of the Sahara, where she played an annoying American actress. She is very good as Zoot in Holy Grail. And she was hilarious being crucified! In Brian you can see she is capable of playing a variety of characters.”

  Are there any off stage or off camera japes that you recall Carol, yourself and the team enjoying, be it practical jokes on other members or funny social episodes and conversations?

  EI: “I don’t honestly recall. I mean there must have been tons, especially on the road. If you look at Monty Python Live you will see lots of anecdotal stuff about that period. I’m sure she remembers some very telling moments, but she was always very discreet!”

  As individuals how did the other Pythons receive and build working relationships with Carol?

  EI: “I think you must ask them. Pythons were colleagues, not necessarily bosom buddies. In fact we have a remarkable indifference to the private lives of each other. I mean we didn’t even notice Graham was an alcoholic!”

  Can you recall attending Carol’s marriage to Peter Brett and your experience of the day?

  EI: “Yes I can, talking of alcohol! The reception was held on a Canal boat, and a great deal of champagne was consumed. But it was the 70’s so I don’t remember much after that. It was a wifetime ago.”

  As time passes between reunions what are your personal thoughts and feelings about re-joining the other Pythons and working together again with Carol in particular?

  EI: “Well since I am responsible for the script and the direction I can only describe it as fear. But one thing I am not concerned about is Carol. She will be there, prepared, ready and utterly dependable.

  “I have been working very hard to feature Carol and give her more roles and things to do. I have no qualms whatsoever that she will be 100% brilliant as usual. She has never been less.”

  Finally Mr. Idle, as Carol embarks on a new path alongside her ongoing work as an actress by writing her show-biz stories in this book, titled PomPoms Up!, recounting many stories including her remarkable highlights of working with the Pythons over time, are there any words or thoughts you’d care to share about what you look forward to reading in PomPoms Up!?

  EI: “I dare you to print my Q and A I wrote for her in the book Monty Python Live!”

  INTERVIEW with MICHAEL PALIN

  Back in the early days of Monty Python, Michael Palin had the boy band looks and school boy charm that made him the Python that female fans would happily bring home to meet their parents. Palin firmly established himself in the minds of generations of film and TV viewers playing silly characters undone by their own foolishness. He is a successful writer for both stage and screen and has entertained with acting roles in big box office hits like A Fish Called Wanda and Time Bandits, written jointly by him and the film’s director Terry Gilliam. For several decades he has criss-crossed the globe as a TV and documentary presenter, bringing millions of international television viewers art, culture, history and stories from around the world.

  Michael, first impressions are important. Can you give us details of your first meeting with Carol?

  MP: “I can’t remember the exact circumstances in which I first met Carol, but it would almost certainly have been in the Acton Working Men’s Club on that day in 1969 where we all met to rehearse the first Monty Python show. I remember thinking that she looked glamorous and quite self-possessed, like a pin-up. I was probably a little over-awed at first.”

  Carol was cast right from the off in the first ever Monty Python TV series, but you had a long history of working in creative writing building male dominated sketches. How were things different for you working alongside Carol so regularly and did it directly affect any dynamics of the Python team?

  MP: “Like most of the Python team I’d served my comedy apprenticeship in university revue. Though the writers and performers were predominantly male there was always that search for a funny woman. Eleanor Bron, Jo Kendall, Annabel Leventon and Diana Quick were all vital to the success of various Oxbridge revues. Carol fulfilled that role for the Pythons. It wasn’t always easy for her, as most of the Pythons couldn’t wait to get into d
rag. Occasionally there would be casting arguments – fights for the tights. Should the woman be Carol or Terry or Eric? For our purposes it was not always a given that a real woman be funnier.”

  Carol’s initial contract deal for the TV series was only intended to run to the first four episodes of Monty Python’s Flying Circus. When it was discovered by the team that her time with you all had ended what was done to reverse this and what were the deciding factors in keeping her on permanently for further series of the TV show?

  MP: “We were all quite shocked to hear that her contract had ended just as she was showing what good work she could do. She had been brought in by John Howard Davies and the new director Ian MacNaughton had his own idea of who he wanted to work with. We all intervened to keep Carol on board. She seemed just too good to lose.”

  Carol had already done a lot of comedy work when she joined the team, but she admits that your ‘stream of consciousness’ writing and Pythonesque humour was a bit of a mystery to her at first. Did you find at any point that her being new to the Monty Python brand of humour was a problem? Did she strike you as a quick study?

  MP: “Carol was an outsider to start with. Our backgrounds were all quite different from hers and I think we thought that our sense of humour was different too – something that was hard to explain to anyone else. Carol seemed to get it from very early on. I don’t remember having to coach her. She knew what was funny, and she felt very comfortable with her body (as they say) and she’d give anything a go. Nothing was ever beneath her, though occasionally she’d open her eyes very wide at some of the things she was asked to do.”

  In your opinion, what talents and roles underpinned her parts in Python sketches?

  MP: “Carol is a very good actress. She also had a good sense of comedy and comic timing. It was instinctive. She’d flutter her eyelashes and waggle her bottom when required but she’d equally well play the winsome romantic lover, like in the pantomime horse sketch. She was very versatile and didn’t have any hang-ups about what actresses should or shouldn’t do. If it was funny she was happy to give it a go.”

  We know that Carol’s physical attributes helped her gain the role of ‘The Python Girl’ and were prominent in many of the sketches. It is clear however that, as time went on she played a wide variety of parts…even bearded male roles, albeit in lipstick and lashes. You have championed her talents and always seemed to be personally supportive of her. Did you steer any of the writing process with Carol particularly in mind? Were there parts that you just knew were completely right for her alone?

  MP: “I had great confidence that Carol could do almost anything we came up with. If there was a problem, it was that quite often she felt under-used. Python was really about six blokes and in a thirty minute show they all wanted to do as much as possible. There was always a fight for parts. I do remember writing the Castle Anthrax scene in Holy Grail with Carol in mind. And it paid off. Zoot was one of my greatest creations.”

  What stand-out performances of Carol’s within the history of all the Python output – TV, stage and film – do you recall the most?

  MP: “I remember with pleasure her put-upon girlfriend in the Visitors sketch, which showed that she absolutely understood that comedy often came from playing a character absolutely straight, and the brilliant comic spin she gave to the glamour girl role when she played Miss Evans in Scott Of The Sahara.”

  Are there any sketches that you appeared in alongside Carol that appealed to you the most and how was it for you working in them with her?

  MP: “I really enjoyed playing the Marriage Guidance Counsellor sketch with her. During my long sad monologue I had to try very hard not to look at what she was doing with Eric because I knew I’d crack up if I caught sight of them.”

  What are your memories of working with her on the films, The Holy Grail and The Life of Brian? How did she seem to cope with the location demands – the cold and discomfort of Scotland and the heat of Tunisia? Can you share with us any episodes of filming with her on The Meaning of Life?

  MP: “Carol always seemed to have a very calm temperament, which, of course, is a vital attribute when filming. She could get very indignant, arching her neck and fluttering her eyes, but she never lost it like some I’ve worked with (including myself). She has a natural sense of humour and appreciates silliness. This, and the fact that she seemed so delighted to be acting, made her good company on filming. She was always a good sport and provided there was a laugh to be had at the end of it she stoically endured the dirt and dust and rain and the waiting.”

  You all spent a lot of time together on location filming and particularly when you toured with the stage shows. Can you tell me about the social side of touring with the team? Do you hold any amusing recollections of time spent with Carol and the other Pythons when the day’s or night’s work was done?

  MP: “I do remember Carol being part of a gang of us, including Terry and Neil Innes and Eric, who crowded into my room on the night of my 30th birthday. We were in Birmingham on a Python stage tour and the audience had all sung Happy Birthday. I took everyone out for a meal and by the time we got back to the hotel we must have had quite a few drinks. Someone had given me the Oxford Book Of Twentieth Century Verse, and we all sat in bed and read poems in silly voices and people ate the chocolates I’d been given. Carol was always up for a party!”

  Can you recall attending Carol’s marriage to Peter Brett and your experience of the day?

  MP: “I remember the day of Carol and Peter’s wedding. The party was held on a barge going up the Regent’s Canal. Carol’s mother and father (or was it step-father?) were there. When we got to Little Venice some people thought it was the end of the journey, but we didn’t stop and continued westwards. I remember John’s increasing expression of panic as we entered the wilder backwaters of Kensal Rise, and at some point, in the middle of nowhere, John and Connie leapt off the boat and disappeared in search of a taxi.”

  What are your personal thoughts and feelings about re-joining the other Pythons and working together again with Carol in particular?

  MP: “I’m looking forward to re-grouping for the O2 shows. Despite all the ups and downs of Python fortunes over the years and the different work commitments that have kept us apart, I am very fond of performing with the group. We do know how-to play comedy and I don’t think any of us play it better than when we’re all together. And being live on stage will add an adrenalin burst!”

  Finally Mr Palin, how do you perceive Carol’s legacy with the Pythons and what will you be looking forward to reading in PomPoms Up!?

  MP: “I think we were very lucky to find Carol. She had the talent and the toughness to survive in our boy band and she added some memorable characters. She always got the most out of the parts she played. She never saw any part as too small. She would take on any challenge and unerringly find the humour. I can’t now imagine Python without her. I also think she has great talent as a straight actor and I shall look forward to learning a bit more about where this came from when I settle down with her book. And a few drinks. And Neil and Eric and Terry. And a bed. And some poems.”

  INTERVIEW with MARTIN GOOCH

  Martin Gooch is a multi-award winning international film and television director. He most recently directed Carol and played opposite her as her son in the international award sci-fi comedy feature film The Search for Simon. A keen fan of both Carol and the Python team Martin has a long and distinguished career covering his time at the BBC and all the leading UK television channels. He tells us now of his close work with Carol in The Search for Simon and how it was he came to play the son of one of his most admired actresses.

  How was Carol selected for her role in Search for Simon? And what process of auditions did she go through?

  MG: “It was an interesting casting process. Simon Birks and I had written the script and taken the tough decision to actually make the film (writing a screenplay is one thing – but MAKING a movie is another!) and I was talking to m
y good friend the actor Jonathan Hansler about who we should think about contacting to play the essential role of Irene Jones, the mother of David the main character, and the linchpin of the movie. She alone knows the whereabouts of Simon!

  “We were going through all the characters in the movie and I said – “We need someone really great to play David’s mum. I really want someone who everyone has heard of, but is also accessible and funny and ‘real’, someone like… like… Carol Cleveland.”

  “Jon looked at me and said, “I know Carol.”

  “I laughed but he was telling the truth. He made contact, and Carol and I had a perfectly lovely chat on the phone. I have to admit I was a little nervous, as being a Director you usually meet everyone face to face, so you can get a ‘sense’ of them, but Carol was so great on the phone, I was just totally cool with her. I think it is absolutely vital for a director and main actors to just be able to chat and have a rapport, and Carol is a natural chatter! She made me feel at ease and was excited to hear about the film – I sent the script over the next day and a few days later Carol phoned to say she loved the script and would love to play the part! We were chuffed to bits!

  “We met up in London and had a good chat through the whole screenplay, and it was great because Carol had really done her homework and had a lot of intelligent thoughts about how the character would actually behave. Because as a writer sometimes you haven’t quite given every character their own voice or psyche, because, of course, they are all an extension of the people in your head, and if you cast a good actor they will fill in all the gaps for you that you didn’t think of because you were looking at the whole of the film and the character arcs, and the actor looks far more closely at the actual character. And Carol made Irene so much better than the Irene we had written.

  “So in a way it was the easiest (and of course best) casting I have ever done. The person I imagined in the role when I was writing it was the person who we got to play it – we never even thought of anyone else!”