The Impeachment Report
Page 29
442 Morrison Dep. Tr. at 265-266.
443 Morrison Dep. Tr. at 172, 266.
444 Morrison Dep. Tr. at 266.
445 Cooper Dep. Tr. at 68.
446 Croft Dep. Tr. at 86.
447 Croft Dep. Tr. at 86-87.
448 Croft Dep. Tr. at 86-87, 101.
449 Croft Dep. Tr. at 97-98.
450 Cooper-Hale Hearing Tr. at 14.
451 Cooper-Hale Hearing Tr. at 13-14.
452 Cooper-Hale Hearing Tr. at 14.
453 Cooper-Hale Hearing Tr. at 15.
454 Vindman Dep. Tr. at 221-22.
455 Trump Holds Up Ukraine Military Aid Meant to Confront Russia, Politico (Aug. 28, 2019) (online at www.politico.com/story/2019/08/28/trump-ukraine-military-aid-russia-1689531).
456 Holmes Dep. Tr. at 18. (“It is important to understand that a White House visit was critical to President Zelensky. He needed to demonstrate U.S. support at the highest levels, both to advance his ambitious anti-corruption agenda at home and to encourage Russian President Putin to take seriously President Zelensky’s peace efforts.”)
457 Kent Dep. Tr. at 202. (“The President of the United States is a longtime acknowledged leader of the free world, and the U.S. is Ukraine’s strongest supporter. And so in the Ukraine context, it’s very important to show that they can establish a strong relationship with the leader of the United States. That’s the Ukrainian argument and desire to have a meeting. The foreign policy argument is it’s a very important country in the front lines of Russian malign influence and aggression. And the U.S. spends a considerable amount of our resources supporting Ukraine and therefore it makes sense.”)
458 Hill Dep. Tr. at 158. (“He was just generally concerned about actually not having a meeting because he felt that this would deprive Ukraine, the new Ukrainian Government of the legitimacy that it needed, especially vis-a-vis the Russians. So this gets to, you know, the heart of our national security dilemma. You know, the Ukrainians at this point, you know, are looking at a White House meeting or looking at a meeting with the President of the United States as a recognition of their legitimacy as a sovereign state.”)
459 Vindman Hearing Tr. at 38-39. (“The show of support for President Zelensky, still a brand-new President, frankly, a new politician on the Ukrainian political scene, looking to establish his bona fides as a regional and maybe even a world leader, would want to have a meeting with the United States, the most powerful country in the world and Ukraine’s most significant benefactor, in order to be able to implement his agenda.”)
460 Volker Transcribed Interview Tr. at 59.
461 Volker Transcribed Interview Tr. at 328.
462 Taylor Dep. Opening Statement at 5. (“In late June, one of the goals of both channels was to facilitate a visit by President Zelensky to the White House for a meeting with President Trump, which President Trump had promised in his congratulatory letter of May 29. The Ukrainians were clearly eager for the meeting to happen. During a conference call with Ambassador Volker, Acting Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Phil Reeker, Secretary Perry, Ambassador Sondland, and Counsel of the U.S. Department of State Ulrich Brechbuhl on June 18, it was clear that a meeting between the two presidents was an agreed-upon goal.”)
463 Taylor Dep. Tr. at 25. (“[D]uring my subsequent communications with Ambassadors Volker and Sondland, they relayed to me that the President ‘wanted to hear from Zelensky’ before scheduling the meeting in the Oval Office. It was not clear to me what this meant.”)
464 Taylor Dep. Tr. at 25.
465 Holmes Dep. Tr. at 20.
466 Taylor Dep. Tr. at 25-26.
467 Taylor Dep. Tr. at 25.
Q:
But Ambassador Sondland made it clear not only that he didn’t wish to include most of the regular interagency participants but also that no one was transcribing or monitoring the call as they added President Zelensky. What struck you as odd about that?
A:
Same concern. That is, in the normal, regular channel, the State Department operations center that was putting the call together would stay on the line, in particular when you were having a conversation with the head of state, they would stay on the line, transcribe, take notes so that there could be a record of the discussion with this head of state. It is an official discussion. When he wanted to be sure that there was not, the State Department operations center agreed.
468 Taylor Dep. Tr. at 26.
469 Taylor Dep. Tr. at 127.
470 Kurt Volker Document Production, Bates KV00000036 (Oct. 2, 2019).
471 Kurt Volker Document Production, Bates KV00000036 (Oct. 2, 2019).
472 Taylor Dep. Tr. at 26.
473 Kurt Volker Document Production, Bates KV00000027 (Oct. 2, 2019).
474 Volker Transcribed Interview Tr. at 242-243.
475 Kurt Volker Document Production, Bates KV00000055 (Oct. 2, 2019).
476 Kurt Volker Document Production, Bates KV00000027 (Oct. 2, 2019).
Taylor: Are you OK with me briefing Ulrich on these conversations? Maybe you have already?
Volker: I have not—please feel free
Volker: The key thing is to tee up a phone call w potus and then get visit nailed down
Taylor: I agree. Is Ze on board with a phone call?
Volker: Yes — bogdan was a little skeptical, but Zelensky was ok with it. Now we need to get it on potus schedule…
Taylor: The three amigos are on a roll. Let me know when I can help.
477 Taylor Dep. Tr. at 65-66. (“Kurt told me that he had discussed how President Zelensky could prepare for the phone call with President Trump. And without going into—without providing me any details about the specific words, did talk about investigations in that conversation…Kurt suggested that President Trump would like to hear about the investigations.”)
478 Morrison-Volker Hearing Tr. at 94.
Q:
In the July 2nd or 3rd meeting in Toronto that you had with President Zelensky, you also mentioned investigations to him, right?
A:
Yes
Q:
And again, you were referring to the Burisma and the 2016 election.
A:
I was thinking of Burisma and 2016.
Q:
And you understood that that what the Ukrainians interpreted references to investigations to be, related to Burisma and the 2016 election?
A:
I don’t know specifically at that time if we had talked that specifically, Burisma/2016. That was my assumption, though, that they would’ve been thinking that too.
479 Sondland Hearing Tr. at 27.
480 Sondland Hearing Tr. at 43.
481 Sondland Hearing Tr. at 21-22.
482 Kent Dep. Tr. at 246.
483 Hill-Holmes Hearing Tr. at 59.
484 Kent Dep. Tr. at 246-47. (“I do not recall whether the follow-on conversation I had with Kurt about this was in Toronto, or whether it was subsequently at the State Department. But he did tell me that he planned to start reaching out to former Mayor of New York, Rudy Giuliani. And when I asked him why, he said that it was clear that the former mayor had influence on the President in terms of the way the President though of Ukraine. And I think by that moment in time, that was self-evidence to anyone who was working on the issues, and therefore, it made sense to try to engage the mayor. When I raised with Kurt, I said, about what? Because former Mayor Giuliani has a track record of, you know, a
sking for a visa for a corrupt former prosecutor. He attacked Masha, and he’s tweeting that the new President needs to investigate Biden and the 2016 campaign. And Kurt’s reaction or response to me at that was, well, if there’s nothing there, what does it matter? And if there is something there, it should be investigated. My response to him was asking another country to investigate a prosecution for political reasons undermines our advocacy of the rule of law.”)
485 Kurt Volker Document Production, Bates KV00000036 (Oct. 2, 2019).
486 Kurt Volker Document Production, Bates KV00000036 (Oct. 2, 2019).
487 Kurt Volker Document Production, Bates KV00000006 (Oct. 2, 2019).
488 Volker Transcribed Interview Tr. at 308; Kurt Volker Document Production, Bates KV00000018 (Oct. 2, 2019).
489 Volker Transcribed Interview Tr. at 138.
490 Sondland Hearing Tr. at 23.
491 Hill Dep. Tr. at 63.
492 Hill Dep. Tr. at 63-67, 155.
493 Hill Dep. Tr. at 63-67, 155.
Q:
Did anything happen in that meeting that was out of the ordinary?
A:
Yes. At one point during that meeting, Ambassador Bolton was, you know, basically trying very hard not to commit to a meeting, because, you know – and, again, these meetings have to be well-prepared. They’re not just something that you say, yes, we’re going to have a meeting without there being a clear understanding of what the content of that meeting is going to be…. And Ambassador Bolton is always – was always very cautious and always very much, you know, by the book and was not going to certainly commit to a meeting right there and then, certainly not one where it wasn’t – it was unclear what the content of the meeting would be about, what kind of issues that we would discuss that would be pertaining to Ukrainian-U.S. relations…. Then Ambassador Sondland blurted out: Well, we have an agreement with the chief of staff for a meeting if these investigations in the energy sector start. And Ambassador Bolton immediately stiffened. He said words to the effect—I can’t say word for word what he said because I was behind them sitting on the sofa with our Senior Director of Energy, and we all kind of looked up and thought that was somewhat odd. And Ambassador Bolton immediately stiffened and ended the meeting.
Q:
Right then, he just ended the meeting?
A:
Yeah. He said: Well, it was very nice to see you. You know, I can’t discuss a meeting at this time. We’ll clearly work on this. And, you know, kind of it was really nice to see you. So it was very abrupt. I mean, he looked at the clock as if he had, you know, suddenly another meeting and his time was up, but it was obvious he ended the meeting.
494 Vindman Dep. Tr. at 17. (“The meeting proceeded well until the Ukrainians broached the subject of a meeting between the two Presidents. The Ukrainians saw this meeting as critically important in order to solidify the support for their most important international partner. Ambassador Sondland started – when Ambassador Sondland started to speak about Ukraine delivering specific investigations in order to secure the meeting with the President, Ambassador Bolton cut the meeting short.”)
495 Volker Transcribed Interview Tr. at 310.
496 Morrison-Volker Hearing Tr. at 23, 73, 103.
497 Hill Dep. Tr. at 68. (“And Ambassador Sondland said to Ambassador Volker and also Secretary Perry and the other people who were with him, including the Ukrainians, to come down to—there’s a room in the White House, the Ward Room, to basically talk about next steps. And that’s also unusual. I mean, he meant to talk to the Ukrainians about next steps about the meeting.”)
498 Hill Dep. Tr. at 68. (“And Ambassador Bolton pulled me back as I was walking out afterwards and said: Go down to the Ward Room right now and find out what they’re talking about and come back and talk to me. So I did go down.”)
499 Vindman Dep. Tr. at 64-65.
Q:
And what do you recall specifically of what Sondland said to the Ukrainians—
A:
Right.
Q:
—in the Ward Room?
A:
So that is right, the conversation unfolded with Sondland proceeding to kind of, you know, review what the deliverable would be in order to get the meeting, and he talked about the investigation into the Bidens, and, frankly, I can’t 100 percent recall because I didn’t take notes of it, but Burisma, that it seemed—I mean, there was no ambiguity, I guess, in my mind. He was calling for something, calling for an investigation that didn’t exist into the Bidens and Burisma.
Q:
Okay. Ambiguity in your mind is different from what you—
A:
Sure.
Q:
—actually heard?
A:
Right. Correct.
Q:
What did you hear Sondland say?
A:
That the Ukrainians would have to deliver an investigation into the Bidens.
Q:
Into the Bidens. So in the Ward Room he mentioned the word “Bidens”?
A:
To the best of my recollection, yes.
Q:
Okay. Did he mention 2016?
A:
I don’t recall.
Q:
Did he mention Burisma?
A:
My visceral reaction to what was being called for suggested that it was explicit. There was no ambiguity.
…
A:
Again, based on my visceral reaction, it was explicit what he was calling for. And to the best of my recollection, he did specifically say “investigation of the Bidens.”
…
A
So the meeting that occurred in the Ward Room referenced investigations into the Bidens, to the best of my recollection, Burisma and 2016
500 Hill Dep. Tr. at 69.
501 Hill Dep. Tr. at 151-52.
502 Hill Dep. Tr. at 69-70.
503 Vindman Dep. Tr. at 31.
Q:
Did Ambassador Sondland—were the Ukrainian officials in the room when he was describing the need for these investigations in order to get the White House meeting?
A:
So they were in the room initially. I think, once it became clear that there was some sort of discord amongst the government officials in the room, Ambassador Sondland asked them to step out of the room.
Q:
What was the discord?
A:
The fact that it was clear that I, as the representative—I, as the representative of the NSC, thought it was inappropriate and that we were not going to get involved in investigations.
Q:
Did you say that to Ambassador Sondland?
A:
Yes, I did.
504 Vin
dman Dep. Tr. at 18.
While not specifically disagreeing with any of the content of the discussion in the Ward Room, Ambassador Sondland generally disputed Dr. Hill and Lt. Col. Vindman’s accounts, saying that he did not recall “any yelling or screaming…as others have said.” Sondland Hearing Tr. at 23. Neither Dr. Hill nor Lt. Col. Vindman described yelling or screaming in the meetings.
Ambassador Sondland also testified that “those recollections of protest do not square with the documentary record of our interactions with the NSC in the days and weeks that followed.” Sondland Hearing Tr. at 23. As an example, Sondland provided text from a July 13 email that he sent—not to Dr. Hill, but to her successor Tim Morrison—which said that the “sole purpose” of the call between President Trump and President Zelensky was to give the former “assurances of ‘new sheriff’ in town.” Sondland Hearing Tr. at 23. The email that Ambassador Sondland provided does not undermine Dr. Hill’s or Lt. Col. Vindman’s testimony that they objected to Ambassador Sondland’s conduct in the Ward Room meeting. The email provided by Ambassador Sondland, however, was sent to Mr. Morrison, not Dr. Hill. Mr. Morrison had not yet started working as NSC Senior Director for Europe and was not at the July 10 meeting.
505 Vindman Dep. Tr. at 29.
A:
So I heard him say that this had been coordinated with White House Chief of Staff Mr. Mick Mulvaney.
Q:
What did he say about that?
A:
He just said that he had had a conversation with Mr. Mulvaney, and this is what was required in order to get a meeting.