Beyond Heaven and Earth

by Steven H. Propp

The two men were silent, facing each other, at a virtual impasse.

  There was a soft knock on the door, and Reverend Baxter looked at his watch, and said, “Ah; refreshments!” To the door, he called out, “Come on in, honey.”

  After this, a petite blond woman—very pretty, obvioiusly his wife—entered, carrying a tray with a pitcher and two cups on it. Reverend Baxter rose, and cleared off a space on the edge of his desk to set the tray down, and he assisted her in doing so. He put his arm gently around her shoulder, and kissed her lightly on the cheek. “Thanks, sweetheart.” Then turning to Jobran, he said, “Mr. Winter, I’d like you to meet my wife, Katherine.”

  Jobran shook her hand, gently. “I’m pleased to meet you, Mrs. Baxter. Your husband is a very intelligent and articulate man, and we’ve been having an interesting discussion.” She handed a cup of coffee to Reverend Baxter, then turned to Jobran.

  “How do you like your coffee?” she asked Jobran.

  “Black; no sugar.” She poured a cup, and handed it to him.

  Mr. Baxter then handed Jobran a small dish with a piece of pastry on it, and handed a similar dish to her husband. “I overheard part of the discussion from the next room; so I figured you could use some nourishment, other than from the Bible.” She gave Jobran a radiant smile, which thoroughly charmed him. (It reminded him of how nice it was to have a wife—a helpmate, and soul mate— beside you.)

  “Actually, Mr. Winter, Katherine came from a Southern Baptist background,” Reverend Baxter said, his voice full of pride in his wife, “So she’s actually been on the other side of the fence.” Mrs. Baxter nodded, and the Reverend pulled up a chair for her to sit in.

  Jobran took a small bite of his pastry, and said automatically, “That’s good,” until he tasted it, and said, “Actually, that’s very good; excellent, in fact,” and he took another, much larger bite. As he ate, Jobran’s gaze took in the two of them, sitting side-by-side, looking very relaxed and contented with each other. “Out of curiosity, how did the two of you meet, if you’re from such different backgrounds?”

  “We met at a Pro-Life conference,” she said, smiling at the fond memory. “I was fresh out of Bible College, and he was looking for a different pastorate, since the church he had originally been called to wasn’t very responsive to his exposition of ‘Church Discipline.’ We discovered that we had so much in common in terms of our political and social views, and our ethical beliefs—even the kind of music we liked! Most people at my Bible College hated Bach and classical music—so we just had to try and find out whether or not we could reconcile our views of the Bible, and of God’s sovereignty.”

  “And if there’s one thing about these Southern Baptist women,” Reverend Baxter said, deep affection in his eyes and voice, “They know their Bibles!”

  With a serious expression, Katherine said, “In Bible College, they didn’t really talk about John Calvin at all; Martin Luther they talked about, but only in terms of his ‘freeing us from the shackles of Rome.’ We never studied Luther’s book, The Bondage of the Will, for example, where he said, ‘the will of God is immutable and infallible, and it governs our mutable will.’ Then Jonathan introduced me to John Calvin’s Institutes of the Christian Religion, and I was just astonished to find out that he had written the first edition when he was even younger than we were!” They squeezed each other’s hands, affectionately. “Anyway, I was just amazed at the logical rigor of Calvin’s work: how everything fit together, how it made sense out of so many Bible passages I used to ignore, or at least skip past quickly.” They both laughed.

  “I’d always had some lingering doubts about some aspects of what I’d been taught in Bible College,” she said. “We strongly believed that we were ‘saved by grace through faith, and not by works,’ yet we also taught that you had to ‘make a personal decision for Christ,’ as well as not believe the sort of things that the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Mormons believed, in order to be ‘saved’—but weren’t these ‘personal decisions,’ and these doctrinal beliefs, actually ‘works,’ of a sort?” She looked at Jobran for any sign of disagreement, and seeing none, she continued, “We believed that you were ‘Once saved, always saved,’ and claimed that we believed in the ‘Eternal Security’ of the believer; and yet since we believed in free will, there was no way of knowing this for sure, since a person could always choose to reject God. We constantly talked about the ‘End Times,’ how the ‘Rapture’ was coming soon, and how only certain people would be saved during the last seven years on Earth; yet if we all had ‘free will’ and God wasn’t sovereign over everything, how could the Book of Revelation tell us what was going to happen at the ‘End’? If God foreknows everything, then we don’t really have ‘free will’ to do anything other than what He knows will happen.” She shook her head, as if embarrassed by her former beliefs. “Now that I know that God is in control—totally in control—I finally have an unshakable basis for the ‘Eternal Security’ that I always wanted to believe in, because I have God’s guarantee that the saints will persevere.”

  Reverend Baxter added, “In his Commentary on Romans 8, Calvin said, ‘No adversary, therefore, can shake, much less destroy, our salvation.’”

  Jobran said, “So you completely deny the doctrine of free will?”

  Reverend Baxter thumped his desk with his hand, and said, “Absolutely. You don’t even need the Bible to deny it; the 18th century American theologian Jonathan Edwards—whose preaching initiated the famous ‘Great Awakening’ revival—wrote a philosophical treatise denying the freedom of the will, and even secular scientists and psychologists have long ago abandoned the idea.” Pointing his finger directly at Jobran, he added, “If you believe in ‘free will,’ then you are creating some fictitious entity that is beyond the will of God—whereas the Scriptures tell us that all things are subject to God’s will.”

  Jobran summed up, “So essentially, God is the one who is creating those whom he foreknew—and/or decreed—will deny his grace, and thus merit eternal damnation? Yet this isn’t even something that they are freely choosing?”

  “That’s correct,” Reverend Baxter replied, turning in his Bible, “And that is also the case for those whom he chose to save. Ephesians 1, verse 11 says that Christ is he ‘In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.’ Then Romans 8, verses 29-30 says, ‘For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called; and whom he called, them he also justified; and whom he justified, them he also glorified.’ But it is all dependent upon God’s will, not our own.” Gently closing his Bible, he concluded, “And this is the great insight that John Calvin brought out so clearly.”

  Jobran finished his pastry, wiping his hands with a napkin, and took a sip of his coffee. “Mmm . . the coffee’s great, too, Mrs. Baxter,” and she looked pleased. Jobran thought for a moment, then said, “I don’t know quite what to say; this is a rather remarkable theological position you’ve explained to me.” He paused, then offered tentatively, “Doesn’t it seem to you that that is rather an…arrogant, or prideful position?”

  Both Katherine and Reverend Baxter looked genuinely surprised, and he said, “In what way?”

  Regretting that he hadn’t been more tactful in his choice of words, Jobran added, “Well, aren’t you basically saying that your group, and only your group, is saved?”

  Katherine spoke up first, saying, “The group that is saved is the group that is chosen by God; it isn’t the same as a particular denomination, or congregation.”

  “Remember,” Reverend Baxter added, “That everything is strictly done by the will of God: if God didn’t will us to salvation, it wouldn’t happen. So there is absolutely nothing about which we can claim any ‘personal’ merit
, or have any degree of personal pride in—much less arrogance.”

  Jobran was almost stumped. After looking around the rather small room, he offered, “I’ve been to services at churches in this city that have huge congregations, with thousands of people attending Sunday services. Quite frankly, your congregation seems rather small, compared to them. Don’t you think you might be more, well…successful if you had a more ‘open’ attitude?”

  They both looked at him as if he were a visitor from another planet, without a clue as to the nature of Earthly customs. Reverend Baxter gazed around the same room, but with obvious pleasure and satisfaction, and said, “How are we not successful? God provides everything that we need.”

  Katherine said, “In our church, we aren’t evangelistic. We aren’t trying to set attendance records; we are trying to fulfill the will of God, and that’s all.” She laughed a bit, then added, “It’s so much better than the Baptist church I was raised in, where they kept harping on us to join the ‘Evangelism Committee,’ where they would put on classes about the ‘Four Spiritual Laws,’ and an ‘Evangelism Explosion’ that was supposedly taking place. They even posted the total number of attendees in church and Sunday School—as well as the amount of money in the collection plate—right behind the pulpit, every Sunday!”

  Reverend Baxter nodded, and said, “You have to understand that for us, church isn’t just a social club, or a neighborhood homeowner’s committee meeting: We believe that we are the people chosen of God, who are meeting together to help fulfill His purposes for us on the Earth.”

  Jobran said, “So you don’t even try to convert people to Christianity?”

  Katherine replied, “We don’t argue with people, or try to tear down what they believe. We believe that those whom God has foreknown, will be shown the way to us.”

  Reverend Baxter amplified the point, “We cannot convert someone by our own effort; only God can perform the act of conversion. Consequently, we also don’t give classes in traditional Butler-type ‘Apologetics,’ since—as Cornelius Van Til pointed out so strongly—even to attempt to engage in such discussion is to concede to the unbeliever that he has a rational philosophical basis for his position, apart from the God of the Bible.” Reverend Baxter continued, “The sinful unbeliever is also engaged in an act of willful self-deception, so that there is nothing we can say to them that will ultimately change them. By the same token, if God chooses to save someone—if, for example, God has elected to save you— then there is no power that can prevent that person from being saved.” With a serious expression, he looked Jobran straight in the eyes, and said, “Then on the other hand, if he has not elected to save you, then any amount of effort I put forward would be insufficient.”

  Jobran shook his head, as if trying to regroup his thoughts. “Well, then, let me get on to the original reason for my visit: My wife.”

  Katherine looked with curiosity at her husband, who whispered to her, “He’s the one who wrote that letter I told you about,” and her expression immediately softened into one of genuine empathy, and she reached out and took Jobran’s hand, squeezing it gently. (This simple gesture of sympathy brought tears to Jobran’s eyes.)

  Keeping his voice steady, Jobran said, “As I told you, my wife was a Catholic. I take it, from your general theological orientation, that you would regard the chances of my being reunited with my wife in Heaven as slim?”

  Reverend Baxter held up his hands, and said, “As I said, it is God who determines everything, not me.”

  “So you’ve been saying,” Jobran said, sardonically.

  In a careful, serious tone, Reverend Baxter said, “You should realize, however, that the fact of your being married on earth does not link you to your wife’s eternal fate.” He paused, as if waiting to see if Jobran “got the point”—which he did.

  “There are any number of earthly marriages where one partner is saved, and the other is not,” Katherine volunteered, brightly. “If it is God’s will for you to find salvation, the fate or condition of your wife will not hinder you from finding it.”

  His voice turning hard and cold, Jobran stood up abruptly, and said, “If my salvation means that I will be eternally separated from my wife, then I have no interest in it.” He suddenly started toward the door.

  Both Reverend Baxter and Katherine leaped up, looking remorseful. “Mr. Winter, I’m so sorry; we didn’t mean that to come out the way it probably sounded,” Katherine said, gently touching his arm.

  Jobran’s anger diminished, and he nodded and said, “That’s all right, I’m just overly-sensitive in that area.” Returning to a normal tone of voice, he said, “Thank you for your time and hospitality—and for the wonderful refreshments.”

  Reverend Baxter handed Jobran several pamphlets, and said, “Look, don’t think or act hastily in this matter; one never knows when and where the Holy Spirit is drawing you. Take this literature with you and study it, read your Bible, and pray. If you have any questions about what you are reading, just call or E-mail me; I’ll be glad to try and answer them. My personal phone number and E-mail address are printed on the back.”

  Jobran shook hands with both of them. “I’ll certainly be interested to read your literature. If nothing else, your position is a very interesting one; and I’ll certainly avail myself of your kind offer to contact you with any questions I have.”

  Then Katherine looked Jobran directly in the eye, and said, “Mr. Winter, I let my husband handle all of the heavy theology; from my perspective, the only that really matters is that God is sovereign, and all things really do work together for good. Don’t despair over the fate of any soul—only God knows what he has decreed for any individual; we certainly don’t.”

  Reverend Baxter laughed lightly, and said, “I certainly don’t claim that I’ve got all the answers myself. The only thing in life that I’m certain about—apart from sacred Scripture, of course—is that I don’t know who God has chosen, or why.” He paused, before adding meaningfully, “For all I know, God might have brought you here today in order to start a process, wherein you will ultimately realize that you yourself have been decreed by Him to salvation.”

  Jobran thought for a moment, then said softly, “For God to have done that, He would have had to cause my wife to die, right? Since her death is the whole reason I’ve been on this religious quest?” Neither one answered him. “In fact, that’s probably what you do think, right?”

  Reverend Baxter put his hand lightly on Jobran’s shoulder. “Mr. Winter, I don’t know—and yet, it may be. This might be the very incident that God decreed to draw you to his salvation.” Jobran shook his head, skeptically. Reverend Baxter added, “Quite frankly, I’m afraid that I tend to be rather ‘narrow’ in my theological perspective, and I often fail to clearly see the people that God has placed right in front of me.” Nodding at his wife, he added, “Katherine is far better at that than I am.”

  Katherine said, “Mr. Winter, our church is located right at the edge of the downtown area, and we have a number of members of our congregation who were formerly quite ‘worldly’ people. Several were drug addicts, and one used to be in an outlaw motorcycle gang. But the amazing thing is that, once they heard the glorious message of God’s election to salvation, they instantly responded! This outward sign was the manifestation of God’s previous inward election of them.”

  Reverend Baxter smiled as he recalled, and said, “One day about five years ago, there came staggering into our church—right in the middle of a Communion service—a black-leather jacketed motorcyclist, half drunk; he plopped himself loudly right down in the front pew. I was about to have an usher call the Police, but Katherine wouldn’t let me.” With both wonder and pride in his voice, he added, “That young man has now completely cleaned up his life, and is serving as Vice-President of our church board—and our congregation is sending him off to seminary next semester, and we expect that he wi
ll come back and join our staff as our Associate Minister.” He smiled, and said, “In my own wisdom, I would never have guessed that God was drawing individuals like him to us; and yet, God was.”

  Katherine added, “My husband used to be concerned about the ‘changing demographics’ of the downtown area, as well. Almost all people moving into the neighborhood now are Black and Hispanic, for example.” Gently placing her hand on her husband’s arm, she smiled and said, “Being originally a Baptist, I’ve always been in very integrated churches, but the ‘Reverend’ here initially had some concerns that we might not ‘fit in’ with the neighborhood soon.” She playfully slapped his shoulder, and said, “But the percentage of members of our congregation who are Black and Hispanic is growing steadily, and it’s all because of God’s work. Plus, the preaching and teaching here is a lot more intellectually challenging than it is at the Pentecostal churches that a lot of our new members come from, and they really appreciate that.”

  Nodding his head, Jobran said, “That’s very interesting.” and he shook hands with them again. “Thank you again for your time.”

  Katherine said, “We enjoyed talking with you.”

  Reverend Baxter said, “Read that literature. And who knows? Perhaps we’ll meet again some day—either here, or in Heaven.”

  Jobran turned and walked rapidly away, thinking, I nearly said, “Or depending on what God has decreed, we might meet in Hell, as well.” Chuckling lightly to himself, he thought, I guess that by thinking of saying something so mean to such nice people, I’m conclusively demonstrating that I’m not one of the ‘elect,’ huh?

  Just as long as I’m part of whatever group Sophia was…

  9

  WAS SHE SAVED?

  The service at the medium-sized church was over, and most of the congregation had left—or else adjourned to the next room for refreshments. Jobran sat in the pew and waited, however, until the minister was free, before walking up to him.