The Otherwise

by Mark E Smith

  GRAHAM: What, to protest with?

  MARK: Yeah!

  (Laughter)

  MARK: Coz it was one of the things that you brought to work, y’know what I mean. Twenty Number Six y’know, ten Embassy, your make-up, and a Biba bag with a protest fuckin’ sign! That is the truth! Coz they were all unionised y’know. Even the er, psychologist was in a union. Coz he was a right scrounger. He used to come ’round and scrounge his tea. And I was on the dole. What a cunt he was. He was in a union for psychologists. (…indistinct…) And he would be telling psychologists between here and fuckin’ London what to do. They could have put it in Britannia Hospital. He's not exaggerating the truth y’know.

  GRAHAM: Graham Crowden who plays Professor Millar…

  MARK: He's fuckin’ perfect! What an actor he is!

  GRAHAM: I did three radio series with Graham. And the whole time I was saying to him “So Graham, on O Lucky Man!…”.

  (Laughter)

  MARK: He was in sci-fi things wasn't he? He's such a good fuckin’… He is a consultant at Prestwich Hospital man, I'm tellin’ yer. There were so many of them walking around y’know. He's just totally that role. I want to watch that again!

  ♦ ♦ ♦

  2

  CAN, HOUSE MUSIC & MARSHALL JEFFERSON’S DOG

  MARK: Thanks for the CD by the way. That was great actually, because my copy of Tago Mago is fuckin’… It is scratched to fuck. But I couldn't go buy it myself, y’know.

  GRAHAM: Why?

  MARK: Well, y’know… I couldn't. Y’know what I'm saying?

  GRAHAM: What, you couldn't be seen going into a record shop and buying a Can album?

  MARK: No… it's not that…

  GRAHAM: It's not like in the 70s, when the police treated it as a misdemeanour. It wouldn't end up on your permanent record.

  (Laughter)

  MARK: No, it's just y’know, it's hip to buy Can records nowadays. It is. See it all the time in Manchester.

  GRAHAM: Tago Mago was the first Can album I ever heard.

  MARK: Yeah me too. That was the first one I bought. Mail order. You couldn't fuckin’ get it otherwise. I was into the Velvet Underground. But then Can! I tell you, when I was working on the docks, Can saved my life. That's what people don't understand now. Now it's hip to be into Can, you know what I'm sayin’? But y'see a lot of people want to say they like Can. But most of ‘em, they don't really get what it is that's going on.

  GRAHAM: It's still my favourite Can album. ‘Mushroom’ and ‘Bring Me Coffee Or Tea’. It's like… You can just hear they're all bringing the best out of each other. The band is so tight.

  MARK: Well that's what you fuckin’ want isn't it? Yeah it's very… I was mad into Can. I learnt a lot from Tago Mago. I tell you the other one I played the most: Soundtracks. Have you heard that?

  GRAHAM: Yeah. Brilliant. ‘Tango Whiskyman’!

  MARK: These films you've never seen ’em in your bleedin’ life. But the music! What's that er… ‘Don't Turn The Light On’? Jaki's fuckin’ drumming on that!

  GRAHAM: A mate of mine is a sound engineer. And about 20 years ago he worked with Holger Czukay. And he came into the studio one morning and apparently Holger had come in over night and dug out a huge hole in one of the studio walls so he could thread some piano wire through and twang it!

  MARK: See a lot of people, they think Can is just fuckin’ Holger. But it's fuckin’ not. Even now, the Germans couldn't care less about Can.

  GRAHAM: What else you listening to at the moment?

  MARK: All sorts. Been listening to a lot of Italian house actually. They fuckin’… The sound… They have this very clear sound, you get me?

  GRAHAM: What do you like about house, the repetition?

  MARK: No, I like the whole thing, y’know.

  GRAHAM: A lot of recent house is a bit too smooth for me.

  MARK: Yeah, I know what you're saying, yeah.

  GRAHAM: If you listen to early acid tunes, stuff like Adonis or Bam Bam or whatever, they've got a rough edge. They've got a… a wrongness. I mean Marshall's tunes are classic examples of that. They are perfect, but at the same time they sound a bit ‘wrong’. And I love that.

  MARK: Marshall is very good actually. People don't fuckin’ realise how good he is.

  GRAHAM: I still can't quite get my head around the fact Marshall Jefferson is living in Prestwich!

  MARK: Hey, did I tell you about his walking machine?

  GRAHAM: No.

  MARK: Marshall's got this fuckin’ dog right – this fuckin’ thing! And he can't be arsed to walk it, so he bought a fuckin’ exercise machine to walk the dog for him!

  GRAHAM: Seriously?

  MARK: Yeah. So he puts the dog on the fuckin’ conveyer belt thing and he leaves him to it. And Marshall's goin’ to me “Oh he loves it. He loves his walking machine.” I said, “Yeah I bet he does. I bet he's much happier in your fuckin’ bedroom than he would be running around the park chasing squirrels!”

  ♦ ♦ ♦

  3

  BEREAVEMENT & DREAMS

  MARK: How's your Mum been coping since your Dad died?

  GRAHAM: I think she's as okay as she can be to be honest. It's only been two months and it's her birthday today, so I'm sure that can't be easy. We were talking this morning and she said she still felt quite numb. I think we're all still taking it in really. But my Mum seems to be good at moving forward by treating everything as a series of tasks, if that makes sense.

  MARK: Oh yeah, completely. My Mum was like General Patton!

  (Laughter)

  GRAHAM: I can imagine.

  MARK: No she was actually. She was so organised it was unnerving.

  (Laughter)

  GRAHAM: There's no right or wrong way is there?

  MARK: I still think about me Dad a lot y’know. It fuckin’… it doesn't go does it?

  GRAHAM: Oh man, I had a dream with my Dad in, last week. First one since he died. It was just his voice. He called my name just before I woke up. When I was a teenager, my bedroom was up in the loft. He'd call my name, when it was mealtimes. It was like that. I woke up and I thought he'd called my name in the real world and it'd been him that woke me up. Then I remembered.

  MARK: I go through fuckin’ phases where I dream about me Dad all the time. And then… Yeah, not dreamt about him for… yeah a while.

  GRAHAM: Do you still use ideas from dreams in songs?

  MARK: Yeah I do actually: bits and pieces. Sometimes things… things just stick in your head from dreams, you understand me? I'm always looking.

  GRAHAM: Have you seen Inception?

  MARK: No. Any good?

  GRAHAM: It's ok. It's not essential. The reason I mention it, is they play around with dreams. But in the end, it's one of those like The Matrix, where they turn a potentially fascinating idea into cops and robbers.

  MARK: Is it one of them fuckin’ long films?

  GRAHAM: It is pretty long yeah, maybe two and a half hours. It could be shorter without any ill effects.

  MARK: There's no need for it is there?

  GRAHAM: I got a good character name from a dream. I was standing in a queue and there were these two middle-aged women in front of me and one of them said to the other “Do you know who I really like? Erk Finnan.” So I used Erk Finnan for a character.

  MARK: Erk Finnan! (Laughs) That is very good. What sort of character was he?

  GRAHAM: It was in Nebulous. He was a very successful businessman. They called him ‘The Danish back bacon baron’.

  (Laughter)

  MARK: I tell you… The names some people give their fuckin’ kids nowadays, I reckon a lot of them must've come to ‘em in fuckin’ dreams! It's Yog-Sothoth putting ’em up to it!! Yeah!!! Yeah!!!

  (Laughter)

  ♦ ♦ ♦

  4

  RICH PEOPLE & MANAGERS

  MARK: Rich people, they u
sed to have some kind of class about them didn't they? Y’know what I mean?

  GRAHAM: Did they? I dunno.

  MARK: No! Exactly.

  (Laughter)

  MARK: No, but there's a bigger discrepancy isn't there? Y’know, I've hung out with very rich people, and they're the meanest, most unhappy people. That's the sort of thing they do. I got in a fuckin’… what are them sports cars called?

  GRAHAM: Porsche?

  MARK: Porsche, yeah. Best Porsche. This fuckin’ Dutchman who I used to know… Unbelievable y’know: I mean he fuckin’ picked up this model bird. She dropped dead from ecstasy. He got away with it. Anyway, I remember going ’round to his house and he had every drawer full of every drug in the world, y’know. Marvellous feller. (Laughs) But he was so fuckin’ filthy rich. His wife was Swiss. But y’know like, he gave me his fuckin’ razor blade out of his fuckin’ bag.

  He's still got like Dutch credit… secret fuckin’ Dutch fuckin’ bank accounts y’know. Fuckin’ lucky I must admit. Y’know for like five hundred deutsche er… y’know, gilders. He's had it renewed the week before, y’know what I mean? That tight! That's rich people. Then he goes out. He goes down to his Porsche, he's got about eight parkin’ fines on his Porsche. Amounting to about four grand y’know what I mean? Just while we've been in his house waiting for his wife to come home.

  And he's got, he's got this fuckin’ bank. He's got this purse basically, stuffed with bits of post y’know. Y’know, like what I've got y’know – if you lose – with a tenner in it. But he's got ones with five thousand knicker in ’em, you know what I mean? It's like why? But that's what they're like, they're always paranoid that yer after it.

  That'll be his taste, y’know what I mean? As a rich boy he's doing his duty. He must have been brought up like that. Watch the pennies and all this crap.

  Oh we were talking about Bono weren't we? I can feel him through the waves… No, no urrgh! Their manager resigned. Oh fuckin’ hell, that'll be crippling. Yeah, they'll be lost without him. He's a fuckin’ smart fella. Very smart. He's the one Peter Grant nearly fuckin’ laid out at the Haçienda. Peter Grant y’know, the Led Zeppelin manager?

  GRAHAM: Yeah.

  MARK: Coz he put forward a proposition with the simple Simply Red manager, that all fuckin’ erm… musicians should sign over writing royalties, over to the managers of the groups. Y’know, bring it in as law an’ all that. Unbelievable! The manager of U2 and er, Simply Red, all these people and these rock college people all sat there agreeing with ’em y’know. There's kids doing these sixth form…

  And it went on like that. It was like a private… It was Simply Red's manager, fuckin’ U2, Led Zep's manager Peter Grant, he did it a week before he died. And some other sinister cunt. And they were saying all groups – before anybody should be able to y’know, be a group – they have to sign… they had to get a manager, all this shit. Seriously touted that you have to get a manager and he's got to go to this managing school – and the manager gets all the royalties, all the gig money (Laughs). Honestly, it's fuckin’ preposterous.

  But anyway, Peter Grant was there and he fuckin’ grabbed him by the fuckin’ neck – this U2 guy and the Simply Red guy – and he went “Listen you two pieces of fuckin’ shit!” He said y’know, “You're not the reason we're in this business y’know.” He went… What was the drummer's name in Led Zep?

  GRAHAM: John Bonham.

  MARK: He says “You're not the reason I'm in this business!! FUCKIN’ JOHN BONHAM WAS THE REASON I WAS IN THIS FUCKIN’ BUSINESS!!!” And banged their heads together! And fuckin’ walked off.

  (Laughter)

  MARK: Brilliant that. I never liked Led Zep 'til then.

  (Laughter)

  MARK: But what a fuckin’ manager! I said to Ed, “Can you fuckin’ do that?” He said, “Er… er…” I said “Yeah, exactly!” It's the only way to deal with them isn't it? “John Bonham was why I was in this business”. They were in the business… basically to rip young lads off. Under the pretence it's an intellectual sort of er… y’know what I mean?

  “John Bonham was the fuckin’ reason I got into this business!” Quite right. Fuckin’… You should, if you're gonna be a manager, you should love yer fuckin’ mates shunt yer. First fuckin’ rule. Never mind ‘all the roadies can get the bus to rehearsals’ and all this. There's all these rules they're making up. It's nothing to do with the manager what the group does really in a lot of ways!

  ♦ ♦ ♦

  5

  CLITHEROE, HEBDEN BRIDGE & BURNLEY

  GRAHAM: So are you recording at the moment, or are you…?

  MARK: Yeah, I've just done an EP yeah. That was a good idea. Fuckin’…

  GRAHAM: And is that with everybody? Is that with Dave and…?

  MARK: Yeah, we did it all separate because they're all on leave. The idea was to get an EP out right after the LP. So it's finally been done. It's good: different.

  GRAHAM: Is it all new stuff or is it…?

  MARK: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's called The Remainderer. So everybody thinks it's stuff left over from the LP. It's not at all. Did it in Castleford. What a fuckin’ joint that is. You could do a film in Castleford.

  GRAHAM: Really? What sort of place?

  MARK: Not Castleford. No sorry, Clitheroe!

  GRAHAM: Oh Clitheroe. Yeah, I've got a sister who lives in Clitheroe.

  MARK: Yeah?

  GRAHAM: We were talking about Clitheroe today, it's a weird place. There's a lot of fucking money in Clitheroe now. A lot of very wealthy people there.

  MARK: I know. Coz that is an episode in itself man. It is an episode. The recording of The Fall EP is an episode. We could start off like that. The recording of the new Fall LP.

  GRAHAM: I think it'd be great to have something like that – the haunted studio idea – and then a few other more ambiguous ideas around it. Clitheroe now is like sort of Hale or Alderley Edge.

  MARK: I know.

  GRAHAM: Women in make-up you would have only ever seen women wear at night time, out to the butchers in fur coats. Like footballer's wives y’know.

  MARK: I know Hebden Bridge is like that.

  GRAHAM: Yeah, Hebden Bridge is like hippie fall-out, but then the next generation.

  MARK: Good for them y’know. But I keep boring the lads about it: Hebden Bridge. I used to deal acid out at fuckin’ Hebden Bridge. I tell you, in about 1975, I used to deal acid there and get grass. I remember this fuckin’ hippie, he was fuckin’ going for Mayor. He was going for Mayor in Hebden Bridge, but he didn't even wear any trousers or anything like that.

  (Laughter)

  MARK: He said if you want to get down with us in Hebden Bridge – in Haslingdon he could get you two houses for four hundred and fifty quid.

  GRAHAM: Fuck.

  MARK: And fuckin’ one in bloody Hebden Bridge, for fifteen hundred knicker. And this insurance salesman from Australia, he were one of me best mates at the time, he said we could do it right. And I could have done it then. If I'd have done that, if I could have cobbled together two grand, I could have had two houses in Haslingdon and one in fuckin’ Hebden Bridge!