by Johnny Satan
A: I know I was taking a lot of speed then.
Q: Anything else?
A: Yes.
Q: Any other kind of drug?
A: LSD.
Q: Was Paul Watkins and Brooks Poston still there?
A: No, sir, they were not.
Q: When did they leave?
A: I believe they left in May.
Q: Do you recall, Charles, whether drugs became more or less frequent after Brooks and Paul left?
A: A lot more.
Q: About how many men were left after Brooks and Paul left?
A: About three, I guess, or four of the ones that had been there for a while.
Q: You were there and who else was there with you?
A: Steve Grogan and Bruce Davis.
Q: How did Manson and Bruce get along?
A: Bruce was always real loud, loud talking, and he was just running around kind of trying to be Charlie all the time and putting out — all he would do is just go around preaching Charlie’s philosophy all the time, you know. He was trying to be Charlie.
Q: How about Steve?
A: Everybody was, you know, preaching his philosophy except Steve didn’t have the — you know, he was real quiet. He didn’t have that kind of thing.
The Court: Would this be a good time to have our afternoon recess?
Mr. Bubrick: Yes, your Honor.
The Court: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we will have our afternoon recess at this time. Once more again please heed the admonition heretofore given.
[Afternoon recess]
Q: Mr. Watson, I think you told us before the break that in the period of time between the leaving of Paul Watkins and Brooks Poston and this July period that we are talking about, you increased your LSD; is that correct?
A: Correct.
Q: What effect was the LSD having on you, if any at all?
A: Well, the LSD, this drew up fear. The LSD made me more aware, hearing and seeing and taste and smell, just all your senses became more aware; and you became so aware that you were living in fear and getting so used to living in fear, with all the awareness of things around you you were more like an animal; and until I experienced so much fear that there wasn’t any fear any more.
Q: The end result was that you became fearless; is that correct?
A: Correct.
Q: Did Manson talk about fear a great deal?
A: Yes.
Q: Was that part of his philosophy?
A: Yes, continuously, that part of it; and the acid, too, then and Manson.
Q: How about the subject of killing? Was that brought up by Manson?
A: There was no wrong. Everything was perfect. It was perfection, the flow and the oneness, and there was no mistake. Manson was a perfect being, to me more like Christ and we were totally him then.
Q: Did you ever doubt or dispute anything he told you?
A: No, none at all. Everything was perfect.
Q: Did he make any particular comments about killing?
A: Yes, everything was perfect. There wasn’t nothing that was wrong.
There was no thought of any wrong at all. There was no thought in our heads. All the thought was gone.
Q: Did he use the word “Pig”?
A: Not that much but he always talked about the people, the people down the hill and how much fear they had and how we had already experienced all the fear there was, and had no thought any more, and that all of those people down there were dead already because they had so much fear, and there was no way for them to escape helter-skelter when it came down.
Q: Was he talking more about helter-skelter during this period?
A: Yes. The helter-skelter, of confusion of all the people would be in when it did come down, the fear that they would have. They would just be running into each other in cars, trying to get away from all the fears that they hadn’t experienced yet and we didn’t have any fear. That is why we were going to get away.
Q: I take it you remember the day of August 9, 1969?
[Possible missing testimony]
Q: August the 8th, August the 8th running into the 9th. Do you remember August the 8th?
A: Yes, the morning. I remember all that night before on the 8th. I was up all night on speed and I ended up at the waterfall. Where Charlie and the girls and I believe some babies were over there, a couple of babies that at the ranch, and the younger people were at the waterfall and there was belladonna hanging around that they had pulled up all around the waterfall and I took some belladonna that morning.
Q: The root form?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you remember how big a piece you took?
A: About the size I always took, about an inch or three-quarters of an inch long and about that big around or so —
Q: [By The Court] An inch in diameter?
A: The witness: About an inch; three quarters of an inch or an inch, something like that, not a large piece.
Q: [By Mr. Bubrick] That was in the area of the waterfall?
A: Yes, that was at the camp at the waterfall.
Q: What did you do after, after taking the belladonna?
A: Walked over to the ranch.
Q: How far a walk was that?
A: I’d say less than a mile.
Q: What happened at the ranch?
A: I got over it and I remember seeing Sadie and Linda Kasabian, they had just got back from somewhere, I recall that.
Q: Do you remember whether it was early in the morning or mid-morning or what?
A: It was real early in the morning, about the same time the sun was coming up, about sunrise, yeah.
Q: How were they dressed when you saw them?
A: They were in black, all black.
Q: Did you say anything to them?
A: Not that I can recall. I just — no, I heard something about conversations they had got some credit cards or something, that’s about all I heard.
Q: What did you do that day, if you can remember?
A: I went in the shack down below the ranch and I was out all day on belladonna.
Q: Do you remember what time you woke up?
A: At eating time, when it was time to eat, one of the girls came and woke me up and told me it was time for the family, like Charlie was pulling everybody together for the night meal or something.
Q: Who decided when it was time to eat dinner?
A: Charlie did.
Q: Did anybody eat before he did?
A: No, I remember one time somebody ate before he did and he got real mad, you know, or nobody ever went to sleep before he did or nobody ever got out of bed before he did. You know, it was everybody was doing everything at the same time, one person, that was Charlie.
Q: When you were awakened in time for dinner, did you go to dinner?
A: Yes I did. I had a lot of energy but I didn’t have a lot of pep or something, so I took some speed to get me moving, you know.
Q: Do you remember eating?
A: I didn’t eat that night.
Q: Did you see Manson again that night?
A: I was sitting on the fireplace in the house where we ate and I don’t remember who was in the house, but I know he called me outside and told me to go up to the ranch front, so that’s what I did.
Q: When you got to the ranch front, who else was there, if anybody?
A: I remember a girl walked out, one of the girls, and everybody was taking acid that night, and that’s what I was told, anyway, so I took some acid.
Q: Who gave it to you, if you remember?
A: I can’t recall. I believe it was Squeaky, though I’m not for sure.
Q: Did anything else occur that evening that you remember?
A: Yes, Charlie called me over behind the car, down at the far end of the ranch, and handed me a gun and a knife and he said for me to take the gun and the knife and to go up where Terry Melcher used to live and to kill everybody in the house, as gruesome as I could, or something to that effect; or, “Make sure everybody is dead, as
gruesome as you can,” or something to that effect.
Q: Did he tell you who was in the house?
A: I think he said something about movie stars but I’m not for sure. I believe he did, though, I recall something about movie stars. I recall something.
Q: Did he say something about Terry Melcher living there?
A: No, he didn’t. He said where Terry Melcher used to live, I believe.
Q: Who else was present at this conversation?
A: No one, just Manson and I.
Q: And what happened after that conversation?
A: Well, he continued to tell me the things he wanted done.
Q: Like what?
A: He said, “The bolt cutters are in the back of the car for you to cut the highline wires; then to go in and make sure everybody is dead as gruesome as you can”; and he said afterwards to wash off and to throw away the guns and the knives and the clothes; and then to come back to the ranch. Then he said something about writing on the walls, and we were walking over to the car that the girls were in and I said — the first words that I had spoken — and I said, “Now, what did you say?” or something to that effect. I wasn’t real clear on what was to be wrote on the walls or clear about the whole thing, really; and he said, “Don’t worry about anything, just make sure that everybody is dead and that it is done as gruesome as you can do it.”
Q: What did you do then?
A: I got in the car.
Q: Where?
A: In the back seat of the car.
Q: Who was in the car?
A: Linda Kasabian.
Q: Where was she, if you remember?
A: She was at the driver’s under the wheel.
Q: Who else was in it?
A: Sadie and Katie.
Q: You were in the back. Who else was in the back with you, if you remember?
A: It was either Katie or Sadie. I can’t recall to be that perfectly clear on who it was.
Q: Did you see the bolt cutters in the car?
A: They were laying on the back floorboard of the car.
Q: Did this car have a back seat?
A: No. There was all kinds of stuff on the floorboard and there wasn’t anything in the back seat but a bunch of bottles and stuff like that.
Q: Do you remember what the bolt cutters looked like?
A: They were big and they were bright red.
Q: How big?
A: About that long [indicating] or so.
Q: Two feet? Your Honor, I have here what appear to be a pair of red bolt cutters. May they be marked W-4 for identification?
The Court: W-D.
Mr. Bubrick: W-D. I am sorry.
Q: Will you look at the bolt cutters in front of you and tell me if you recognize those?
A: Yes. They are the bolt cutters.
Q: Were they the bolt cutters in the car that night?
A: That is the kind.
Q: [By The Court] It looks like it anyway?
A: Yes, right.
Q: [By Mr. Bubrick] Incidentally this car that you were in was a yellow car, do you remember?
A: Yes. It was a yellow car.
Q: Who did it belong to, if you remember?
A: I believe his name was John.
Q: It was the car that you saw around the ranch?
A: It was, yes.
Q: All right. Did you drive off from the ranch?
A: Yes.
Q: And was Linda driving?
A: Yes, that is correct.
Q: Where was she in the car?
A: She was — the car I remember was parked right by the pole and she was in the driver’s thing, right outside the door, handed them up to me.
Q: And you were in the back seat; is that correct?
A: Right.
Q: Was there anything else in the car that you were aware of?
A: The only other thing that I was aware of is the gun and the knife that Charlie had given to me.
Q: How about any items of clothing?
A: No.
Q: And where was the car driven, if you remember?
A: It was driven up to the top of the hill and that is where Terry Melcher lived.
Q: It was on Cielo Drive?
A: I didn’t see the street or anything. That is where we were, though.
Q: Did you say anything while the car was being driven?
A: No. I was laying down in the back seat. My head was in the girl’s lap when I was laying down.
Q: Could you hear any directions being given to Linda?
A: No. I couldn’t hear anything.
Q: Do you recall the car coming to a stop, the car stopping somewhere on the hill?
A: Yes, it stopped.
Q: Where? Do you remember?
A: It was by a telephone pole.
Q: What happened at the pole?
A: I know the girl that I was in the lap with shook me and said I’m to cut the wires, so I knew, you know, Manson had told me that to cut the wires, so I just went straight up the pole, you know.
Q: How did you get up the pole? Do you remember?
A: I can remember being on the pole, on the things that you climb on, your know. I was on those.
Q: The pegs or the bars in the pole?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you remember how far off the ground the first one was?
A: No, I don’t.
Q: Do you know how you got up there?
A: I can’t recall exactly how I did get up there.
Q: When you got up on the pole were you carrying the bolt cutters?
A: No, I was not.
Q: How did you get them?
A: Linda handed those to me.
Q: Did she get out of the car to do that?
A: Yes.
Q: And then you went up the pole, did you?
A: Yes.
Q: And you cut the wires?
A: I cut the first wire, all the wires that I could see.
Q: Do you remember how many there were?
A: No, I do not.
Q: Did you come down the pole?
A: I know I had to come down the pole but I actually don’t recall coming down the pole.
Q: Do you remember whether you cut any other wires on the ground?
A: No. I did not cut any other wires.
Q: Did you have any other cutting device other than the bolt cutter?
A: Just my knife, that is all, the knife that Charlie had gave me.
Q: Did you have any pliers in your pocket or wire snips or anything of that nature?
A: No, nothing else like that.
Q: And you used those, that bolt cutter, to cut those pole wires; is that correct?
A: Yes, that is correct.
Q: You came back down the pole. Do you remember getting in the car?
A: No. The next thing that I can recall is walking back up a hill.
Q: Do you remember where the car was parked when you started to walk back up the hill?
A: We walked up the hill. It was at the bottom of a hill.
Q: Is that where the telephone pole was where the wires were cut?
A: No. The car was a long ways from the — a pretty good little walk back up the hill.
Q: How did the car get from the pole where the wires were cut to where it was parked at the bottom of the hill?
A: It was drove to the bottom of the hill.
Q: By whom?
A: I don’t know for sure who drove it.
Q: Did you do it?
A: No, I did not.
Q: Then how many were walking back up the hill when you got out of the car?
A: There was four of us.