The Climb

by Anatoli Boukreev

  NEAL: Do we abandon the tape and just go with notes?

  MARTIN: I think that’s a wise decision.

  KLEV: I would object to that, personally.

  MARTIN: I think the tape’s going to get you into trouble, if there is trouble. Because people are going to interpret every little thing you say or don’t say, any way they like.

  INGRID: I think you’re much more likely to get the whole story on the tape.

  MARTIN: I think, as far as getting the correct story, that may be correct, but—

  INGRID: Then we’ll have to do it some other time, because I want as much of the whole story as I can get.

  KLEV: I’m filled with questions, personally. I’ve been in litigation. I recognize your concern. I’m putting that behind me in this case. This is an exceptional situation, and personally I’m willing to take that risk. I recognize everything you’re saying, Martin.

  MARTIN: Well, fine.

  KLEV: Well, why shouldn’t I?

  MARTIN: So, let someone else do it.

  KLEV: Oh, you mean as far as moderate?

  MARTIN: That’s correct.

  KLEV: Yeah, well, I nominate Neal as moderator.

  MARTIN: I think the most important thing is to get Lopsang’s and Anatoli’s interpretation.

  LENE: Yeah, I think that’s true. They’ve been there.

  MARTIN: I think we should start there and let them go and—

  SANDY: Rather than chronological? Just start at the crisis?

  MARTIN: Sounds reasonable to me.

  SANDY: Can we go through—why don’t we go through quickly the—

  MARTIN: The chronology?

  KLEV: I think Martin can explain himself. He’s already indicated that he’s ready and willing to do that.

  MARTIN: I’m willing to participate. I don’t want to—

  SANDY: Let’s just go through leaving the tent in the morning, the order we left in, who left with who, who saw who going where and approximate times at key landmarks on the mountain. Let’s get ourselves to the summit in about—

  MARTIN: Five minutes.

  SANDY:—five or ten minutes and then let’s go on from there, because that’s what really matters. Okay? Does that sound like a plan?

  MARTIN: Yeah.

  SANDY: Okay, so we woke up at ten o’clock [10:00 P.M., May 9, 1996].

  NEAL: First, Sherpas. It was exactly ten o’clock when they started rumbling around.

  SANDY: You gotta speak up, Neal.

  NEAL: Oh, is the tape running?

  SANDY: Yeah.

  NEAL: Oh, Okay. This is Neal. Ten o’clock exactly is when I heard the first Sherpa rumbling around, and approximately fifteen minutes or so after that we had a pot of tea from the Sherpas. We spent the next hour and fifteen minutes organizing ourselves, and at approximately 11:30 [P.M.] we piled out of the tents. That process probably took ten or fifteen minutes, and, with the intention of leaving at twelve o’clock, put our crampons on. I remember helping Tim with his crampons quite a bit; and Charlotte. I didn’t see who left before them, but I did tell Charlotte to leave at approximately 12:00, 12:10 [A.M.].

  SANDY: I left first. I left camp first with Lopsang.

  NEAL: At what time?

  SANDY: I don’t know what time it was, but Scott said, “Is anybody ready? Because, Lopsang is, and, if anybody is ready, they should go with him.” And, Rob Hall’s* people were about an hour ahead of us on the hill already. You could see their headlamps up there, and so Lopsang and I took off, and I would say we were at least ten minutes ahead of the pack. Would you say that is correct?

  NEAL: Okay.

  KLEV: I have a question for Lopsang. The night before, what time had been arranged for you, for you, Lopsang, to leave?

  LOPSANG: Twelve o’clock [midnight].

  KLEV: Twelve o’clock. You were supposed to leave with the members?

  LOPSANG: Yeah, with members.

  KLEV: You were supposed to leave with—

  NEAL: Were there any Sherpas from our group that were supposed to leave at ten o’clock to go fix ropes?

  LOPSANG: No.

  KLEV: Who was going to fix ropes?

  LOPSANG: Fixed ropes already other people to making.† And after so he like—[UI]*—and Anatoli and Neal fix, because I am going to pass while they’re there. I’m also sick and vomit.†

  KLEV: You were sick and vomiting and you were unable to go earlier?

  LOPSANG: And, no, I decide go to with member. Last camp, also, I’m sick, so I wait—[UI]—and after, so I’m going to summit, so all members summit, after I wait for Scott and so I waiting—

  SANDY: So—but there was no assignment earlier in the day for you to leave early to fix ropes?

  LOPSANG: So, I have all fix—[UI]—I carry, but I fix every year. So, I fixing rope; every year where I’m making.

  KLEV: How were those ropes to get in front of Rob Hall? He left an hour before us. How were we supposed to get those fixed ropes in front of Rob Hall? Were there arrangements with our other Sherpas in light of your illness?

  LOPSANG: Before, so already making so first times of the other group, trying get making ropes, and they are not gain summit. They come back South Summit to come back.

  KLEV: Did anybody follow that?

  TIM: He says Sherpas from Rob Hall’s group were going to fix the lower mountain?

  LOPSANG: Yeah, so they’re going to first—they’re going to Rob Hall Sherpa going to pass first back, already making rope before other Sherpa. So, the other group try to pass summit and South Summit to up, not gain, come back. And South Summit to after Neal and Anatoli fixing rope. I carry ropes up, and last camp I give to Neal and Neal carry rope up.*

  NEAL: And, what time did you reach the summit Lopsang? Do you know? Did you look at your watch?

  LOPSANG: So, we reach summit half past one [1:00 P.M.].

  SANDY: Half past one?

  LOPSANG: Yeah.—No?

  NEAL: No, I reached the summit at 1:25 or 1:28 [P.M.] and you were at least two hours after me.

  LOPSANG: Yeah, 1:25, so—[UI].

  ANATOLI: One o’clock I was on summit. Maybe seven minutes past one o’clock I was on summit. And then—

  LOPSANG: And so, after I come back—[UI]—so you know South Summit— [UI]—all summit after Rob Hall and Doug [Hansen] also summit— [UI]—after all summit, after I come back, because, so, there rope, so my ice ax to keep rope, and after, so all come down, and my ice ax take out and I come down.†

  KLEV: I have a question for Neal and Anatoli. This is Klev. What was the arrangement for fixing lines ahead of the group and in conjunction with Rob Hall? What was—

  ANATOLI: I heard from—I am Anatoli Boukreev—I heard from Scott Fischer about this plan: start at twelve o’clock; I need to be with group and see group; Neal will, with some Sherpas, will fix line—what I heard from Scott, exactly. And, what is your questions?

  LENE: I heard specifically—this is Lene—I heard specifically that Scott said that the lines would be fixed in advance so that the members should at no point wait.

  SANDY: I also heard that the lines were all to be fixed by our Sherpa and by Rob Hall’s Sherpa in advance, and that they were going to leave at ten o’clock; we were going to leave at midnight, because Scott was laughing and telling me that he thought I should leave with the Sherpa since I was so slow.

  KLEV: This is Klev. I concur with Sandy. That was my understanding of what was supposed to transpire.

  NEAL: This is Neal. That’s also my understanding of what was to happen.

  SANDY: What time—should we talk about what time everybody reached—I guess the key landmarks don’t matter, but the summit. You were on the summit first, Neal?

  LENE: That’s one thing that I would like to say.

  SANDY: Okay.

  LENE: This is Lene. The night we arrived at the South Col, it was blowing heavily, and it kept on blowing until some point in the evening. And I had doubts in me, and I know there were some people in our tent
talking about it. “Are we going to climb or are we not going to climb?” Because, I don’t personally think it’s a wise thing to start out climbing after a big storm, because it’s not a good sign. It’s not a good sign that you’ll have stable weather. And, at a certain point, I think it was ten o’clock that night, Scott talked to Rob Hall, and I got the understanding that they agreed that both teams were going to leave together.

  KLEV: This is Klev. At that time the wind had totally subsided.

  LENE: Right.

  KLEV: At ten o’clock [10:00 P.M., May 9, 1996].

  LENE: Yes.

  KLEV: By ten o’clock.

  NEAL: Before ten o’clock.

  LENE: Yes.

  KLEV: Sometime earlier than that in—I’ve got a question about the oxygen and how much oxygen was stocked on the mountain, and maybe, Lopsang, you could start. How much oxygen was at Southeast Ridge?

  LOPSANG: So—

  NEAL: Let’s start at Camp IV.

  KLEV: Or, Camp IV, sure. How much oxygen was at Camp IV before members arrived?

  LOPSANG: The Sherpa carry twenty-one oxygen bottle up.

  KLEV: They carried twenty-one? On summit day are you talking about? Or before members arrived?

  LOPSANG: So, summit day, they carry up—[UI].

  KLEV: Do you understand?

  LENE: How many oxygen bottles were at the South Col to begin with?

  LOPSANG: South Col to carry [to the] summit?

  LENE: No, just in the South Col to begin with.

  KLEV: Before members arrive, before we go up, before summit day.

  LOPSANG: Sixty-two, sixty-two bottle.

  KLEV: How many big bottles? How many small?

  LOPSANG: Nine big bottle.

  KLEV: Nine big bottles for sleeping on—

  LOPSANG: Yeah, and small—umm—

  KLEV: It would be the difference. Okay.

  NEAL: This is Neal. The original plan was to have eleven bottles at Camp III and later a bottle was found on the lines that was asked to be brought down to Camp III, so we would have eleven and a half, or basically twelve bottles at Camp III. The original plan called for either sixty—I believe sixty-nine bottles—I can look in my notes—at Camp IV. We were not concerned that the number was sixty-two, because the sixty-nine number included Pete and Dale’s oxygen supply.* That included a contingency night waiting at the South Col, sleeping on half a bottle a night for each person. So, with the number of bottles that Lopsang told us, sixty-two to sixty-five, I can’t remember the number exactly—told to us before—we felt comfortable that was more than we had originally anticipated.

  KLEV: Then, Lopsang, how many were carried up and where were they put?

  LOPSANG: Our Sherpa carry twenty-one bottles.

  KLEV: Twenty-one bottles were carried onto the mountain?

  LOPSANG: Yeah.

  NEAL: And, how many of those are used by Sherpa?

  LOPSANG: The Sherpa used two—[UI].

  KLEV: How many Sherpas did we have on the mountain?

  LOPSANG: Six Sherpa.*

  KLEV: Six Sherpa counting yourself?

  LOPSANG: But, I no use. I carry one bottle, so I give to—[UI]—at the summit.†

  SANDY: Can you tell us the names of the Sherpa that were climbing that day?

  LOPSANG: We have six Sherpa. One, I am Lopsang Sherpa, and Tashi Tshering Sherpa, Ngawang Tenzing Sherpa, Ngawang Sya Kya Sherpa, Tenzing Sherpa, and Ngawang Dorje Sherpa, and all—Ngawang Tenzing Sherpa and Ngawang Sya Kya Sherpa is near Hillary Step— [UI] — going back, because Ngawang Tenzing Sherpa is a little sick and going back.

  KLEV: One Sherpa went back because he was sick.

  LOPSANG: Two Sherpa.

  KLEV: Two Sherpa went back?

  LOPSANG: One Sherpa back and—[UI],

  KLEV: So, we had four?

  NEAL: Where did they turn around?

  LOPSANG: And, we had four Sherpas summit: Lopsang Sherpa, Tashi Tshering Sherpa, Tenzing Sherpa, and Tashi Tshering Sherpa.‡

  NEAL: And, where did the two Sherpa turn around?

  LOPSANG: Two Sherpa going to—[UI].

  NEAL: Yes, they turned around though where? How high?

  LOPSANG: Uh—[UI].

  SANDY: Around 8,800 meters?

  TIM: South Summit.

  LOPSANG: 8,800 meters—South Summit.

  NEAL: I thought that your father, Ngawang [Sya Kya] Sherpa, turned around somewhere lower down by the Southeast Ridge.

  LENE: No, I saw him at the South Summit.

  LOPSANG: [UI].

  NEAL: Okay, and then we had one Sherpa that stayed at the South Col, Pemba Sherpa. Right?

  LOPSANG: Pemba Sherpa.

  KLEV: I’m still confused. Of those six Sherpa, who was on oxygen? How many used oxygen, how many Sherpa?

  LOPSANG: They use, uh, twelve oxygen.

  KLEV: Two were on oxygen?

  LOPSANG: Twelve. Twelve.

  SANDY and INGRID (simultaneously): Twelve bottles?

  LOPSANG: Five Sherpa use oxygen—ten oxygen.

  KLEV: Five Sherpas used oxygen. You were the only Sherpa that did not use oxygen.

  LOPSANG: I no use oxygen.

  KLEV: Why did you not use oxygen?

  LOPSANG: Because I climbing so many times, so—three—now this is my fourth time—before three time without oxygen. I use oxygen, but more vomit—[UI]—and after so I’m—[UI]—with oxygen.

  INGRID: Does that mean you tried oxygen on this trip, but it made you vomit?

  LOPSANG: Yes, before many, before ‘93, I had climb. Never use oxygen.

  SANDY: He started vomiting with oxygen.

  INGRID: Oh, on other trips you’ve tried oxygen and you think it made you sick?

  LOPSANG: Yeah, I used oxygen, so I’m vomit; I’m no—[UI]—a headache. I climb with oxygen.

  KLEV: Did you use any oxygen here?

  LOPSANG: No.

  KLEV: You didn’t.

  NEAL: But, some in the tent, yes?

  LOPSANG: Tent, so they give to oxygen bottle, but now empty, but no oxygen.

  KLEV: After summit day?

  LOPSANG: No.

  KLEV: Night before summit, you were given oxygen, empty oxygen bottle?

  LOPSANG: No oxygen. And so I carry extra one bottle oxygen up, so Sherpa, all the Sherpa not coming, and so send the oxygen please. I give— [UI] —summit.

  KLEV: Okay, so twenty-one bottles were put on the mountain by Sherpa—

  LOPSANG: Yeah.

  KLEV: And where—?

  LOPSANG: Sherpa and members—

  NEAL: No, but twelve of those bottles are used by the Sherpa themselves.

  LENE: Maybe, because everybody carried oxygen, and I think that the Sherpas also carried their own oxygen, but—

  LOPSANG: Members, extra two with Sherpa, two is members—the Sherpa carry four bottle oxygen.

  KLEV: Sherpas all carried four bottles of oxygen—

  LOPSANG: Yeah.

  KLEV: And every member carried two bottles of oxygen. Is that accurate for Neal and Anatoli also?

  ANATOLI: Not Anatoli. I didn’t use oxygen. I carry one bottle extra and I give for Neal when Neal work forward to fix lines. I gave him one my bottle extra.

  KLEV: Anatoli, why weren’t you using oxygen?

  ANATOLI: My point about this. I have big experience with oxygen. If you use oxygen, it is very dangerous when oxygen finish. I afraid about this. I felt I can work without oxygen. If I will use oxygen and oxygen will finish, it will be much more difficult. Because it is physiology. You need use oxygen full-time. I afraid about this weather because I talk with Scott Fischer about this weather. Was not sure about weather will be very good. And, my point, not climb with this date. But Rob Hall have big experience, much bigger than my experience, and—

  KLEV: Have you ever used oxygen, Anatoli?

  ANATOLI: Where?

  KLEV: Have you ever used it anywhere? Have you ever used it?

  ANATOLI: Yes, in traverse of Kanchenjunga,
for summit of Kanchenjunga I use oxygen.* And this is very—you can see this with difficult weather, you need—for me, very important to this ability—what I did. If I will use oxygen, then oxygen will finish, it is more difficult to work. Very hard. Because it is body ready to oxygen; oxygen finish and you stop. Like what we saw with Scott.

  KLEV: Had Scott ever used oxygen before?

  NEAL: Yes, he had. He climbed Lhotse with it, and I believe his first two trips to Everest were oxygen trips.

  ANATOLI: But, for work without oxygen, you need experience. Is very—you need, not like first time go without oxygen. You need to have big experience about this. If you have this, it is okay. If you have not this, it is not okay. Also, for security, if you some get sickness, you need extra bottles. I was not sure about how many bottles extra Sherpa have for members. And for me it was a question. Now for Lopsang. Lopsang, how many Sherpas have extra for members—bottles?*

  LOPSANG: Ten bottles.

  ANATOLI: Ten bottles.

  KLEV: There were six Sherpas, and they all have two bottles—they all had four bottles, excuse me—

  LOPSANG: Five Sherpa carry extra bottle, ten bottle, and I carry one bottle.

  KLEV: Because you were carrying fixed ropes also.

  LOPSANG: Yeah, all carry—[UI].

  KLEV: Did somebody follow that totally?

  INGRID: Yeah.

  SANDY: Yeah.

  TIM: So, there was eleven bottles, would be extra for people to use?

  KLEV: Eleven bottles that the Sherpas were carrying.

  LOPSANG: Carry—[UI].

  KLEV: Okay, then where did you put those? Where were those put?

  LOPSANG: So we give to South Summit—

  KLEV: South Summit?

  LOPSANG: Yeah.

  SANDY: You deposited them on the South Summit? They were left on the ground at the South Summit?*

  LOPSANG [UI]—but I not carry them down—[UI].

  KLEV: I didn’t understand that.

  TIM: He didn’t bring the extra empty bottles down.

  KLEV: Oh, yes.

  LOPSANG: So I not can because I have Scott—[UI]—I tell to [Scott], “Please we go to Camp IV.” He [Scott] say, “I’m not going to Camp IV, I’m—[UI].”